Hollow Point vs Cup Point

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  • Last Post 01 September 2023
Idahocaster posted this 31 August 2023

I have a 311291 hollow point mold I use for 30-30 rifles. I would like a heavier bullet to use for 30-06. I chose the 311284 because I have several of these molds. I will send one to Erik Ohlen to be converted and still be able to cast regular round nose bullets as well. My question is should I do a conventional hollowpoint or a cup point? It seems to me that a cup point may be able to handle a little more velocity without blowing off the nose of the bullet, but also may not expand as well at lower velocity. Anyone have experience or opinions you'd be willing to share?

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Aaron posted this 31 August 2023

Of late, I am leaning to the cup point. The cup seems to get things rolling better rather than the more explosive results of the deep hollow point. I have better weight retention with the cup point and bullets have a more symmetrical shape - at least in gel. Lord knows we need at least another 40 years of debate to make any determination. smile

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Ed Harris posted this 31 August 2023

I have had no issues with low velocity expansion of cup points. It is simply a matter of using the correct alloy for the velocity obtained. 1 to 40 tin-lead with conical cup point 0.6 of meplat diameter with 60 degree included angle expands reliably sub-sonic.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Wilderness posted this 31 August 2023

Idahocaster - is your objective a bullet that comes out of the ballistic gel looking nice, or a dead animal? And what sort of animal?

If your objective is a gentle load for small game, then please ignore the following.

If you are intending to kill something medium to large with these bullets, I would suggest driving them as hard as you can before groups open or leading appears. On both counts you may get further along with a harder bullet, but try both. Speed gives energy/momentum, but more importantly it moves bullet metal around.

As Ed Harris notes, it is then a case of corrrect alloy for the velocity (and the chosen hollow). The continuum will be from a soft bullet with minimal hollow (or cup) to a bullet maybe a bit harder than #2 with a modest hollow - about .100" or .110", tapered, and taking no more than 5% of bullet weight.

In my experience, blowing the nose off a hollow point bullet is no sin unless the pieces are turning up on your plate. If the hollow is sufficiently modest to begin with, and the bullet hard enough, the fragmentation does not occur all at once, and leaves a substantial amount of bullet to keep on penetrating.

To illustrate the "not all at once" statement, a few days ago, using 175 gn HP bullet as described at 2200 fps, I pulled off a double (unintentionally) on some 3/4 grown pigs - the first through the ribs, the second in the neck. There was still plenty of destructiveness left over for the second pig.

In any case, once the mould is drilled, you can have multiple pins made - hollow, cup, solid bullet - and can try the different forms for effectiveness, preferably on the end users.

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Idahocaster posted this 01 September 2023

Wilderness, the hollowpoint you described is how I have my 311291 set up. 0.10 hollow that is about 2/3 the length of the nose with a taper to a spherical base. It does work well, I'm just trying to decide if I want to try something different this time. The idea is up to deer sized game.

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Wilderness posted this 01 September 2023

Idahocaster - we are probably both using original Lyman hollow points. Somebody there knew what they were doing.

I did have a little play with soft solid bullets (3% or 4% non-lead at 2100 fps) - too much penetration and not much destruction. Then I tried the same with 4 gns drilled out. I only shot one pig with that formula, but it seemed OK. I'll revisit that idea when I'm not overstocked with hard hollow points. The micro hollow definitely needs a soft bullet. In my case the soft bullets still shot well (.30-30 with LVR), but grouping could be the stumbling block.

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