I've noticed in the tech sheets in the Fouling Shot that most shooters use heavy for caliber bullets. Why are heavy for caliber bullets more accurate? Is it the better BC? Do longer bullets align better in the bore? I'm interested in your opinions and experience.
Tyler
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idahocaster,
Your observation is dead on and both your reasons are correct.
For similar nose shapes, the longer bullet will have a higher ballistic coefficient, and less wind drift, because BC is promotional to sectional density thus the longer the better as long as you have a twist fast enough to stabilize the bullet.
Longer bullets are easier to get aligned with the barrel and tend to stay better aligned while accelerating.
It is not just the fashion or a fad that you don't see any short bullets in a match.
John
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Something else to consider. In the above pic, both are .35 cal., both have similar nose profiles, both have similar weights (actually the NOE is 2-3 gr heavier). Without a jacket, the same weight cast bullet will be shorter, therefore a heavier cast bullet is required to obtain an equivalent length.
Wayne
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Several factors:
At the Windhill Range many years ago, we had a bullet recovery box we used to experiment with light and heavy loads. The RCBS 45-300-FN bullet left sideways witness marks on opposite sides. This bullet was found to be traveling in the bore slightly sideways while the RCBS 45-4-5-FN was not. Then we next tried the RCBS 45-500-FN mold with the same results.
After this, I became a sincere devotee of the heaviest bullet the twist rate will sustain.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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Years ago there was member of our gun club who worked for Honeywell, travelling the world as a consultant for the manufacture of small arms ammunition. Prior to our monthly club meeting this member conducted a 30-minute tech session. He picked the topic and when addressing ammunition, he related tecnical and experience related details about the subject ammunition.
One tech session he focused on the .30-06 Springfield cartridge. He had chrono teadings, charts, bc data, bullet examples, etc. He pointed out what you've read here....the heaviest bullet available in commercial ammunition was the most accurate for a given chambering. For the '06 at that time, it was the 220-grain bullet. That was a frequent question of his audience....what bullet is the most accurate in my hunting rifle? Of course there are trade offs considering bullet weight vs. accuracy.
We as handloaders have an advantage, we can expand that concept by increasing the length/weight of our projectile, as long the barrel twist rate can accomodate our choice.
Tom
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Unless there was a huge difference in bearing length, I would think that there would be little difference between safe loads of 173 jacketed and 180 gr jacketed. In that case I would try data for the 173 grain bullet, but start at the bottom loading.
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Additional to the above mentioned reasons the heavier bullet allows the powders at the charge level used to ignite and burn efficiently while maintaining the lower velocity level needed for best accuracy.
LMG
Concealment is not cover.........
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The 30-06 and the 30-40 Krag make sense the heavier 220 grain bullet is more accurate because both calibers/rifles were designed to shoot the 220 grain bullet. This means the twist was too.
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Yes, the '06 and Krag were "twisted" at 1:10 for the 220 Round Nose.
Not necessarily for really long 220s.
Mine have done well with 190-200 SBT bullets. I think about the same length as the 220 RNs
beltfed/arnie
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I load for three .35 Whelens, one of which is an Ackley Improved with a faster twist.
NOE has a couple even heavier 358 moulds, one of which they call "Thumper". NOE 360.310 a 310 gr FP GC . The other is NOE 360.280 a 280 gr GC Spitzer.
I have used Thumper with a cast softnose on deer. Excellent results and good accuracy, although I have not yet shot it from the standard twist barrels. No bullet recovery from any deer. It would most likely exit even on a Texas heart shot.
I have not tried the 360.280.
Lee
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i think
that shoot-for-score mj benchresters shoot 30 cal because the fatter but heavier bullets make for up the very slight loss in ease of accuracy compared to lighter PPC 6mm 65 gr bullets ... by easier touching the scoring rings simply because they punch a bigger hole. rifles with130 gr 30 cal recoil jump less than 163 gr 30 cal. so at 100 yards the compromise favors the lighter but fatter bullets. also, these guys build the rifles to the optimum for the lighter 30 cal bullets ... custom barrels with twist just fast enough to stabilize bullets at the range they are shooting ... 14-15-16 twist .
apparently even with near-perfect custom mj bullets, the slower twists aggravate less the teensy imperfections as the bullet leaves the muzzle.
*******************
our silly-putty lead bullets by the time they leave the muzzle have more imperfections ... most of them incurred in the first inch of travel ... so one might think that>>
longer bullets are proportionally less distorted in that first inch.
maybe the little gremlin that takes a whack at each bullet in that first inch only has so big a hammer ...
makes it fun, don't it ... ?
ken
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i always took this to mean that with the same powder charge the cast bullet gives a little less initial ( peak ) pressure compared to the mj bullet. due to the initial deforming resistance of the MJ.
so when extrapolating loads from cast loads to MJ, i would look for higher pressures from the MJ.
and of course, work up from unquestionably safe loads in either case.
hope this helps,
ken
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One reason is that you are limited in velocity with cast bullets. In order to get the energy up, you increase the bullet weight. This applies to hunting situations especially.
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I don't shoot competitively, but I've accumulated a variety of .30 caliber moulds over many years. I'm sure there are exceptions, but it seems like those designs in the 190-220 grain range are usually more accurate than the lighter bullet designs in popular chamberings like the .308 and .30-06 with standard twist rate bores of 1 in 10" or 1 in 12".
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I shoot the NOE thumper 310 gr. but with my soft lead drops at 315 gr out of a 358 win. 1-14 twist, have shot several deer and several hogs, never recovered a bullet from them as they shoot both sides , also might add they are paper patched
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Been shooting the 311284 from my Krag and 03 Springfields for longer then I care to remember. Excellent bullet for them with great accuracy.
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I have the following .358 moulds. Only a couple have shot really well for me. Thumper and the NEI are both good.
Lyman 3589-1 280gr HP GC
Lyman 358009-2 280gr RN GC
Ideal 358315-2 200gr RN GC
Lyman 358318-2 250gr RN GC
NEI 358-290-1 290gr FN GC
NOE 360.280-4 280 gr GC Spitzer B
NOE 360.310-5 310 gr FP GC “Thumper”
SAECO 358-2 200gr PB FN
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I have two Whelens, both 1:14 ROT, and both shoot the CBE 360-300 very well. Actual bullet weight is 310grs. I powder coat these bullets, size the bands .360 and the nose .351. Propelled at 2030fps with Vihtavuori N150.
The CBE358-250 shoots equally well, but I’ve not been able to achieve similar accuracy with lighter bullets yet.
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Hopefully interesting side comment.
While it is pretty clear that long CBs are best if precision and wind resistance is the object, the opposite seems to be true for JBs.
For precision and wind resistance jacketed bench resters use 130 grain for 30 caliber, 68 for 6mm and 52 for 22. Different game, different best solutions.
John
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I don't know John. Here's how I see it. Large caliber are most often used for hunting large big game and often dangerous game. You need a heavy bullet for both penetration and breaking bones. Large calibers a not often used as target rifles or varmint hunting. On the other hand small calibers are the exact opposite. There are NO CB's that can equal the jacketed VDL bullets for wind resistance as that is their initial invention. Because many hunters can't afford numerous rifles of different calibers more suited to the type of game they wish to hunt, they make do with the smaller caliber they may have. Thus heavier long bullets were made for the smaller calibers in order to hunt larger game such as deer and up. In the .224's you'll see 70 grains and up to the 90's. In .243 you're see over 100, and so forth for the other small calibers. Those 52 grain .224 bullets you mentioned have to deal with most popular calibers having the slower twists such as 1-12, and 1-14, sometimes even slower. Sierra made the 63 semi point bullet specifically for the .224 caliber that have the slow twist so they can shoot heavier bullets. More the often this didn't work. Had a friend that had a 22-250 with a 14 twist and those Sierra's keyholed from his Ruger. Those 52 grain bulllet do shoot very accurately from many .224 caliber rifles, but there are others a little lighter and a little heavier that shoot equally well.
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SkinnerD, Lyman manual #44 had loads for the .30-30 up to 190 grain (using the .303 Savage jacketed bullet). I'm fairly sure it can be found on-line.
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John Carlson
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Bud Hyett
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linoww
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MP1886
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MarkinEllensburg
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drone
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Aaron
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beltfed
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Lucky1
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Eutectic
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