What are the best cases to use for forming cases for the Arisaka 6.5x50 for the Type 38 rifles and 7.7x58 for the type 99 rifles?
Also what dies and procedures are best?
Any advice and help is appreciated.
John
What are the best cases to use for forming cases for the Arisaka 6.5x50 for the Type 38 rifles and 7.7x58 for the type 99 rifles?
Also what dies and procedures are best?
Any advice and help is appreciated.
John
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No idea for 6.5, since you can buy brass cheaply. For 7.7 I annealed neck and shoulder of Federal 30/06 cases and ran through the 7.7 Jap die set. Trim to maximum case length. Wrap two layers of Scotch tape around base and fire form with 16 grains of 2400. Chambers are BIG and this will allow the case to be centered.
I wouldn't do this again, as I can buy brass from Graf's for less than $1 apiece and it is in stock, as of tonight. A lot better than Norma brass at $2 a piece 30 years ago.
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Believe it or not, I make cases for my 6.5 Japs from 308 cases. I made a special heavy duty swage die to do this. It even leaves the little semi rim on the case. You end up with a very heavy duty case. It does have slightly less total capacity, but who's loading to the absolute maximum?
Think at the moment it's pretty tough to find cases. Most componants are out of stock.
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I have heard that you can form the 6.5 case from .35 Rem. Lots of effort to get from .358 to .256. I just bought 100 PPU cases from Midway and saved the effort. This was several years back when things were available.
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Thanks to all. I will pass this along to my friend without a computer that Graf and Son is the way to go unless you just like forming cased.
Thanks.
John
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Hello John,
Some where around here, I have a stash of commercial, soft point 6.5 ammunition. I think it was all Norma brand. I sold about half of it several years ago, and have been looking for it ever since. I must have hid it real well. If I could find it I would part with it for a reasonable amount, But like I said, I've been looking for it for years. I hope I didn't have a mid-night shopper.
In my experiences, fire forming 7.7 Jap from 30-06 doesn't work out to suit me. I don't want to fire ammo that has a web smaller than specs for that particular case. I have fired a lot of it however. I also have some 7.7 brass. It would take hours and hours to dig it out and that is something that I don't have a lot of now days. I've had several of my old customers con me back into doing gunsmith work. But I've promised myself, that when I'm finished, I will quit again, that is gunsmithing for the public.
Mashburn
If you friend doesn't find what he's looking for and I will do my best to dig the 7.7 brass out.
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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Thanks David, I will keep that in mind.
I know exactly what your are talking about not knowing where all your treasures are. We moved across country six years ago. I got rid of a ton of stuff which helped but brought ten tons so now have even more things I haven't found yet.
John
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Trust me, from personal experience you want to buy the right cases. The right cases are cheap and will save you lots of frustration.
Dale M. Lock
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I tried the '06 case route for 7.7, and never got more than two firings out of a case. 8mm Mauser worked about the same, but it was necessary to neck up to .338 to create a false shoulder to neck down to and fireform. I must admit that I've never tried Rics method of using tape to keep the case centered for fireforming. I go even with that rifle long ago when I sold it off during another election panic for far more than it had ever been worth before. Norma brass worked just fine!
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If the 6.5 Arisaka commercial cases are unavailable, you can make reasonably long-lived cases with either 35 remington (I usually use a 308 winchester sizing die first and then final form with my 6.5x50 sizing die.) or with 220 Swift cases (trim to 50mm and then neck up to 6.5mm. The Swift's semi rim case allows me to fireform very easily after that.) Load data for the original 6.5x50 Japanese military cartridge with its updated 140gr Spitzer bullet at 2,500fps (just 42K PSI also!) is easily replicated with today's powders and bullets.
For 7.7x58 Arisaka cases, the scotch tape trick on the bases is easily the best way to get a consistent form of the base of the trimmed down and necksized 8x57 or 30-06 cases as many Type 99 chambers are "generous" compared to Mauser barrel chambers. My Type 99 rifle that hs not been rechambered to 311-06 has a chamber that after firing brass for the first time, the reformed cases look like the chamber is a 7.7x58mm Ackley Improved...That rifle's brass always stays separate and firefomed for that rifle only Folks who reload 7.7 Arisaka should use 303 British load data as the original Japanese military loads were designed to replicate that lower pressure cartridge with both 200gr Round Nose and 160gr Spitzer jacketed bullets. When you do that, those 30-06 and 8x57 reformed cases seem to last forever even with full-powered 303 Brit jacketed bullet loads.
Have fun! I enjoy shooting my T38, Type I and T99 Arisaka rifles a lot.
For cast bullet information,
For the T38 and Type I rifles, I use Lyman's 130gr 266455 (discontinued Loverin/Rounded Spirepoint) and Lyman's 140gr 266469 (Loverin Roundnose) molds. Both molds are gaschecked versions and I polycoat my bullets to allow me to get close to the actual service velocity of the original bullets so I don't have to adjust the sights too much on those battle rifles. All three of my rifles shoot the bullets sized at .268 equally well although had to experiment with .266 and .267 sizing dies before I found the right size. My T38 has Metford rifling and it prefers that wider bullet for its shallow rifling design. My Type I uses a standard rifling (Beretta manufactured) barrel but the .268 works fine in it also.
For my Type 99, I use Lyman's 314299 200gr Round nosed and sized at .314 to better fit its Metford style rifling and the heavy bullet matches the weight of the first version of the 7.7x58 cartridge and the cast velocity almost matches the velocity of the heavy jacketed bullet as well. Lee sells a 160gr Spire Point mold for folks with Enfield, SKS and AKs and those .312 bullets work well in my T99 although I usually give those Lee bullets a second coat of PC to ensure it meets the .314" need of that particular rifle barrel also.
These rifles are usually hidden gems for accuracy once the proper bullet diameter is determined.
Bruce
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