Berdan Decapping

  • 420 Views
  • Last Post 23 January 2024
Wilderness posted this 20 January 2024

 

I have just used up the last of a hoard of about 3,000 RWS 5.5 mm berdan primers. Cartridges loaded were mostly 7.62/.308, but also nny .303 and some early S&B .22 HPs blown out to .30-30. Plus a bunch of Kynoch 9x56 MS, and my whole supply of .358 Win made from Australian military 7.62 brass.

I have also done .303s with the big military primer, Kynoch .32-40s with a .200” berdan primer, Kynoch .32-20.  and .44-40, and Sako 7x33, with the small berdan primer.

Decapping berdan cases is not the hassle it is made out to be.

The first method is to chisel out the primer, and that IS a hassle. It actually works pretty well but the case has to be supported, other than when using the old RCBS tool. A misplaced strike can destroy the anvil. It’s really not much of a proposition except for getting out crimped in primers the first time.

The next method is hydraulic – fill the case with water, run a close fitting metal rod into the neck, position the case over a suitable hole for the ejected primer, and strike the rod. The case does not have to be supported other than under the base. I have yet to bulge a case by this method. But then it gets simpler – I have done .32-20s with a case full of water and a Lyman M Die in the 310 tool, though this is best done outdoors. Hydraulic force will remove crimped in primers.

The best of the lot however came from a work colleague about 50 years ago when we were reloading .303 military brass. He gave me a punch comprising a piece of 5/16” rod with two .037" prongs for the flash holes. The prongs had to be about the right distance apart to match the flash holes, but the pins could be bent in or out to fine tune. The real secret however was in what was used for the prongs – fish hook shanks.

 

 

Later a friend made up another for military 7.62 brass. This used the slightly heavier 1 mm pins. To decap, insert the rod, fiddle it to find the flash holes, then tap the rod with a hammer. The primers come out so easily that the case can be decapped while held in the hand. Then use the pins to clean the primer pocket. These decappers can remove some crimped in primers, but at the risk of breaking the pins.

If the flash holes are too small for the more robust 1 mm pins, there is nothing stopping you drilling out the flash holes to 1 mm.

To deal with broken pins, cut a groove around the punch going in as far as the base of the pin. This makes it easier to get out broken stubs.

Most recently I have realised that a single pin is enough to knock out a non-crimped primer. I am currently using a single pin punch on Kynoch berdan .32-40s for which I have primers.

Using a single pin allows a smaller diameter rod to be used on the sub 30 calibers. The single pin punch is what I would use if I had to do any of the 6.5 mm militaries.

 

 

Edit re making the punches: I think one was drilled by eye, and the other by setting the rod up in a four jaw chuck with sufficient offset to get the pins where required. Number drills were involved.

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Mike H posted this 20 January 2024

Similar to what I do,though for years I have only used a single pin to remove berdan primers in Australian 7.62 x51 military cases after the first time chiseling out the primer and removing the crimp.For the military 303 British cases I still use a chisel as the primer holes are very small in the cases with the .250 berdan primer.It had occurred to me to drill one of the flash holes larger,but hadn’t got around to it. You have prompted me to do it.My good 250 RWS berdan primers have run out but I still have a quantity of the old military primers which not match quality still work for general practice.By the way,great tip about the fish hooks.

Attached Files

Eutectic posted this 20 January 2024

Good information, but a little late for me and my high school buddies.

71/84 Mausers were available on the surplus market for 25$. I was a steal, these rifles were produced right at the transition to small caliber smokeless and were never issued. We bought them out of the arsenal boxes in the original cosmoline.

Surplus ammo was cheap, recoil was stout as the powder had hardened in the cases. There were quite a few misfires. Getting the hardened black powder out of the cases was a challenge. 

RWS nonmercuric, noncorrosive primers of correct diameter were available, but the Berdan primers were sometimes difficult to remove without damaging the anvil. I wish I had your good experience then, we were on our own.

Steve

Attached Files

porthos posted this 20 January 2024

isn't there a berdan primer  removal tool?

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 20 January 2024

I have an RCBS tool made for 577 X 450 Martini and it will work with the old black powder cases from the 1800's also. 

Attached Files

MP1886 posted this 20 January 2024

Good information, but a little late for me and my high school buddies.

71/84 Mausers were available on the surplus market for 25$. I was a steal, these rifles were produced right at the transition to small caliber smokeless and were never issued. We bought them out of the arsenal boxes in the original cosmoline.

Surplus ammo was cheap, recoil was stout as the powder had hardened in the cases. There were quite a few misfires. Getting the hardened black powder out of the cases was a challenge. 

RWS nonmercuric, noncorrosive primers of correct diameter were available, but the Berdan primers were sometimes difficult to remove without damaging the anvil. I wish I had your good experience then, we were on our own.

Steve

 

Steve did the though cross your mind to put a little fuse wick on that hardened BP in the de-bulleted cases and let it flashout?  Just a thought, maybe a dumb one. 

Attached Files

Mike H posted this 20 January 2024

Yes,RCBS made one,Australian MF cases and other military cases with well crimped in primers were too much for it,if you removed the original fired primer with a chisel and removed the crimp subsequent primer removal was possible.However it was an art to do it well,you could damage the anvil if you weren’t careful and as well the little chisel pins broke now and then.Finally the tool body broke into two pieces and I have managed quite well without it.

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 20 January 2024

After the first batch, I made a tool to cut the base to take a shotgun primer. You can remake a head in about 30 seconds once you have in the chuck of the lathe.

Attached Files

Millelacs posted this 22 January 2024

While in South Africa in the early '90's I used the RCBS Berdan Decapping Tool on Berdan primed .303 Br / 7.7x56R and 7.62 NATO casings.  There was a high loss in getting the tool set right for each headstamp. Until I got the tool set correctly, I would gouge the anvil.  Then when I went to another headstamp I had to reset the tool, and again suffered damaged anvils getting it set correctly

I also tried the hydraulic method.  I had a punch machined to match the inside diameter of my .303 Br casings.  Sometimes the military casings just would not release the primer because of the crimp.  Somewhere, I have two casings with a very pregnant bulge near the case shoulder from the hydraulic pressure.  If I run across them, I'll post a picture.

I know Berdan primers can be reliably removed.  I saw a gallon bucket 2/3 or 3/4 full with deprimed Berdan .38 Spcl casings for sale at a gun shop.  My luck was never that good.

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 January 2024

you-tube.

you can learn everything about anything on you-tube. ...  cooking octopus ... brain surgery ... 

converting berdan to boxer primer pockets .... 

WARNING;  for any subject, you must watch at least 6 or 8 videos ... then take the average of opinions ... even then, you may find yourself right where you started ... 

but for Berdan conversions, include this one ...   i was thinking i could learn to be a chess master before he got one pocket converted ... but still interesting ...

 

Attached Files

Wilderness posted this 22 January 2024

The chisels we used way back in the dark ages were about 1/8" wide with a curved back - the curve ensured the point turned up as it went in, hopefully missing the anvil. The stock for the punch was probably 5/32".

One problem with boxer conversions of the 5.5 mm primer pockets was that the berdan primer was about .005" bigger than the boxer. I'm not sure if the situation applied also to the SR equivalent.

Once the primer was out the first time it was plain sailing anyway, so no need for conversions.

Attached Files

Larry Gibson posted this 23 January 2024

I've converted numerous different Berdan primed cartridges to use Boxer primers.  I believe I've posted the method here?  Anyways i currently have 18 7.62x54R cases that have now been fired 9 times.  I also have for my own use some Argentine 7.65 cases and some South African 303 cases. all work just fine.  

With my method the firing pin strike is centered with a punch, then drill through making the centered flash hole.  A larger drill is then used to remove the "cap" of the Berdan primer leaving the "ring in the pocket.  A SR primer pocket swager is then used to swage tant ring to size.  If the Berdan primer was crimped in so much the better for retaining the "ring".  

After conversion to Boxer primer the regular decap rod/pin in sizing dies work just fine to decap the fired primer from the case.  

LMG

 

 

 

Concealment is not cover.........

Attached Files

Close