amatuer radio setting off primers ?

  • 549 Views
  • Last Post 08 December 2020
Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 01 December 2020

at groups.io we have a decent handloading group .. and one of the guys there mentioned he has concerns about mixing handloading and his ARO hobby ...

***********************

so after a few minutes of mental imaging of various scenarios ...  i thought i would ask here ...  following is some info .. he is on DMR and HF band sometimes, he says.

Bruce          wb5noq

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
RicinYakima posted this 01 December 2020

I was instructed while training to be a demolitions guy in the army, that you shut the radio off because the energy of transmitting may be enough to set up a magnetic field in your electric detonator wires, generating current. Don't know if it is true, because we used the radio a lot with Claymore mines set out in front of us with electrical wires. FWIW

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Squid Boy posted this 01 December 2020

Others that know more may correct me but I thought a PRC-25 was only 2 watts at best and a lot of ARO gear has way more than that. Even CB's are four to five watts. Thanks, Squid Boy

"Squid Pro Quo"

Attached Files

John4 posted this 01 December 2020

Having worked with electric blasting caps in the mining industry, it is possible for the long lead wires to pick up an induced current from a strong radio signal (like RicinYakima says).  Especially if the bare lead ends aren't twisted together, it's rare and I don't think it could happen with primers.  There's just not enough of an "antenna" to pick up an induced current from the RF.  

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
  • longsteve3
RicinYakima posted this 02 December 2020

squid boy, By the time I was there we were using PRC-77's on patrol/surveys, but used AN/VRC-12's on equipment mounts. I think they were 40 watts, still don't know if they could do anything. Ric 

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
John Alexander posted this 02 December 2020

Can primers be set off by electrical current no matter how strong? Are they that similar to electric blasting caps?

John

Attached Files

max503 posted this 02 December 2020

Maybe Mythbusters could do a show on this?

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 02 December 2020

Well since they went out of business in 2016, not likely. I would not think there would be enough energy to make a boxer primer go off from a radio wave. No, John, electric blasting caps are much different from primers. They use heat to ignite a  first substance, then a high explosive like Pentax blast the main charge.   You guys are over my pay grade now.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Bud Hyett posted this 02 December 2020

Ric is correct. The energy in a radio wave is negligible. Possibly by throwing a primer into the microwave beam of a massive radar station, you could get it to pop. I remember a commercial in the days of black and white television where the announcer was throwing camera flash bulbs into the beam of a Distant Early Warning radar station and they were popping. That kind of energy might get a primer to pop. 

Blasting caps, whether fuse or electric, are not toys and first need instruction, then respect when handling. The detail and effort to make them go bang is cumbersome as it should be. The person setting a blasting cap soon learns that they are built for one specific use in a set way. 

There is much ado about nothing from those who have not been instructed to safely handle them.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

Attached Files

Eutectic posted this 02 December 2020

I had good training in demolitions (thanks USMC) as well as building radios and transmitters. Primers are NOT like electric blasting caps. Electric caps have wire leads which is the problem. The wires act as an antenna and can pick up energy from radio frequencies. The field energy near a transmitting antenna is quite intense and can induce a significant current in the wire. You do not want this!

Fuse caps are immune to this problem, only heat or impact will set them off. Primers are the same. I agree, this is a non-problem.

Steve 

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
  • Bill2728
Squid Boy posted this 02 December 2020

Ric, I think the PRC 77 was all solid state and had a bit more output than the 25. The VRC 12's were vehicle mounted as I remember and did have a pretty good output. I wasn't a radio guy. I do remember seeing a video of a guy trying to set off primers with a neon light transformer. He let the spark pass over the primer but none detonated. I think the metal shell acted as a Faraday cage. He tried igniting black powder too and the spark just made the powder jump. Electric primers work on a different principal. Thanks. Squid Boy

"Squid Pro Quo"

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Eutectic posted this 03 December 2020

Thanks Squid Faraday Cage is the correct analogy.

Steve

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 03 December 2020

I can tell you that if someone carries loose .38 Special cartridges in his uniform coat pocket, and also drops in a charged battery pack for a GE-MPD portable VHF radio, when a cartridge case bridges across the terminals of the 7.2V, 2000mah battery pack that the primer pops, the 158-grain lead bullet is dislodged, loose powder is dumped in the pocket and if he lurches and shakes another round onto the battery pack, the second discharges catches the overcoat on fire!

Desk Sergeant who had seen this happen before calmly dumped his coffee into the now smoking coat pocket and announces

"No loose ammo!"

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

longsteve3 posted this 05 December 2020

You'd have a hard time doing this. Electric blasting (eb) caps use a "bridge wire," similar to a light bulb filament to start the powder train going. There's typically enough static electricity in your hair, clothing, even dust blowing in dry air to initiate an eb cap. Induced stray currents from radio transmissions or high tension power lines could also be a risk. This is why eb caps are shipped and stored with the leg wires shunted and you see the "Blasting Zone- Turn Off 2-Way Radio" signs. When an electrically fired shot is wired up, there's a lot of wire spread out on top of the ground in series or series-in-parallel circuits. It could act as a large antenna array. Now this: in over 40 years working in the industry, I've never seen or heard of a single incident involving a radio frequency premature detonation, and we are talking devices DESIGNED to go off with minuscule amounts of electricity.

Center fire primers are essentially a metal can that would be self shielding in terms of electrical energy reaching the explosive material. There is little chance of any sort that a radio transmission would pose any hazard whatsoever. Especially considering commercial broadcast - radio and television - can be in the range of hundreds of thousands of watts, megawatts even, of effective radiated power. Orders of magnitude greater than typical amateur radio transmission.

That, and the fact I'm here to talk about it after near half a century of reloading and load it up and blow it up activities, large and small.

73 de Steve, KB2DAJ

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • JeffinNZ
max503 posted this 08 December 2020

I know if you shoot small pistol or rifle primers out of a pellet gun and they hit something hard they'll go off.134

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Ken Campbell Iowa
Close