Why cast special 38 WC's?

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  • Last Post 11 April 2014
RicinYakima posted this 24 January 2013

So, I'm thinking over this whole WC for self defense thing in short barrel 38 specials. Why not just turn over your SWC, crimp in the lube groove and use the crimp groove for lube? I must be missing something here? Ric

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docbob posted this 24 January 2013

Ric, That should work just fine in mho.

DocBob

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CB posted this 24 January 2013

Because I like wadcutters. :D Yes, you can turn SWCs upside down and experiment with powder charges if you want, or you can use already published data, and untold decades of practical experiences to achieve your goals.

Seriously, if I didn't already have wadcutter moulds, I'd probably consider doing this.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 January 2013

it should work just fine in Australia..

ken

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Clod Hopper posted this 24 January 2013

Oh Ken, that was baaaad! LOL.
Ric that is what I do when I want a short range load that will not overpenetrate, and will not carry as far when plinking.

Dale M. Lock

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Tom Acheson posted this 24 January 2013

Just bought an older S&W Model 52. And ordered a new 148-gr. WC mould...That's why!

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 24 January 2013

Oooooooo. I'd LOVE to have a 52!

Of note, some research back in the 60's showed that the HBWC's didn't do well as expected as HP's. FWIW, test the function for your own application.

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RicinYakima posted this 25 January 2013

I shot a USMC team 52 in the '70's. Neat gun, but I could shoot better scores with the 1911 soft ball gun. (Which weren't all that great, either!) It was a great plinker with linotype WC's loaded hotter than factory. I was willing to give up 1/4” better group at 50 yards for 100% reliability. There was a reason they didn't sell all that well to Bullseye shooters.

HBWC's will blow into pieces at 357 velocity and not go through a jack-rabbit! Ask me how I know.

Ric

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CB posted this 25 January 2013

RicinYakima wrote: So, I'm thinking over this whole WC for self defense thing in short barrel 38 specials. Why not just turn over your SWC, crimp in the lube groove and use the crimp groove for lube? I must be missing something here? Ric

More guns; a good thing! More molds; a good thing! More shooting 'things'; more fun!

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RicinYakima posted this 25 January 2013

Dan, You always cut to the core. I'm old, trying to do with LESS! Ric

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Uncle Russ posted this 25 January 2013

Oh Rattler Ric,

You do know how to stir the pot! :uhuhuh:

All bullseye boys I converse with these days bypass the mid cals and just shoot the .22 and .45. Personaly, I cut my handgun teeth on a .38 and love it still. I only prefer .44 & .45 for scoring purposes as it cuts a bigger hole and I can use all the help I can get.

Not all of us can shoot small groups with 8 lb triggers full of grit. They should rename the Ransom Rest to Ric Rest. But they would need a few upgrades to honestly do so.

Glad to see the ol .38 still has some followers. And my Air Force M52 is a wonder to shoot even though he has two K38 brothers in the house.

Lets do all we can to promote and protect our sport. :thumbsup:

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Chargar posted this 25 January 2013

I can see a problem. Invert a SWC and crimp in the crimp groove and you are going to have a quite long lead alloy cylinder sticking out of the case mouth. It will be a very tight fit in the cylinder throat if it fits at all. Very slow to load and reload if it can be done at all.

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RicinYakima posted this 26 January 2013

Since I bought plug guages about 5 years ago, I have been plugging cylinders. Amazingly, every one I own in 38 Special will take a 0.360-” guage. Now I size everything .360” and they fit into every 38 I own, plus a “357” Colt that has 0.355” bore. Now we know why HB wadcutters work so well! Ric p.s. I just checked and I own 5 S&W's and 1 Colt in 38 Special.

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CB posted this 26 January 2013

Chargar wrote: I can see a problem. Invert a SWC and crimp in the crimp groove and you are going to have a quite long lead alloy cylinder sticking out of the case mouth. It will be a very tight fit in the cylinder throat if it fits at all. Very slow to load and reload if it can be done at all. Yup, the old “boat tail wadcutter".

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olesmokey posted this 06 July 2013

Upside down bullets aren't so difficult to do. When Im loading on my Dillon 550 getting the bullet rightside up is usually what slows me down. I wish all bullets were double ended wadcutters.

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Dale53 posted this 07 July 2013

I'm a confirmed .38 Special fan. My favorite bullets in that caliber are my H&G #50 BB (four cavity) and a H&G #251 (dbl ended wadcutter in a six cavity iron mould).

In fact, my trip to the range yesterday had me shooting two of my favorite .38's (my .357 Model 686-4 with 6” barrel and my .357 Model 520 with 4” barrel). Both have Red Dot sights these days.

http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0371.jpg.html>

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Webley posted this 07 July 2013

Would a cone ever be able to bump up to fill the rifling of a .360” bore? :D

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PETE posted this 07 July 2013

Webley,

That'll depend on a few things.

  1. I assume by cone you mean a hollow base bullet?
  2. What is the size of the bullet as cast and what are you sizing it to if any?
  3. Alloy your bullet is cast with?
  4. Black or smokeless?
  5. Rifle or handgun?

If all you need is a .001 or two most any alloy will bump up. Any more and you'll have to “soften” the alloy if using smokeless. With black you can go down to bore size and with the alloys used bullets will bump up.

Pete

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cityboy posted this 07 July 2013

My practice load for my .38 Taurus mod.85 is the H&G 48, ww alloy with 2.7 gr of old BE. My street load is Federal HP ammo. Jim

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Webley posted this 08 July 2013

PETE wrote: Webley,

That'll depend on a few things.

  1. I assume by cone you mean a hollow base bullet?
  2. What is the size of the bullet as cast and what are you sizing it to if any?
  3. Alloy your bullet is cast with?
  4. Black or smokeless?
  5. Rifle or handgun?

If all you need is a .001 or two most any alloy will bump up. Any more and you'll have to “soften” the alloy if using smokeless. With black you can go down to bore size and with the alloys used bullets will bump up.

Pete

I was teasing Ric. I suppose that it was a lame attempt. My apologies.

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Chargar posted this 08 July 2013

You ever put a micrometer on that pin gauge?

I have been measuring Smith and Wesson and Colt cylinder throats for 35 years and have a data base of over 100 and that is larger than I have in my notebook.

Smith and Wesson cylinder will run .357 to .358 and Colt .358 to .359. I have never found a 38 Special of either make with .360 cylinder throats, although I did find a tight Chief's Special at .356.

I am not saying .360 cylinder's don't exist, but I think I would have run across one or two by now if they were common.

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RicinYakima posted this 08 July 2013

Yep, 0.3596” with my certified, 2008, micrometer for a .360- guage. The question I have is: How clean were your cylinders when you measured them? I use an ultrasonic tank and clean with paper towels and no lube. Brass brush and old T-shirt patch leaves lots of lumps, plus oil film thickness. I'm not saying you are wrong, just what revolvers I have. FWIW. Ric

P.S. I forgot to add that the S&W's are vintage 1903, 1909, 1914, 1928 and 1937. The Colt is about a 1956 vintage Agent. In case you couldn't tell, I like OLD revolvers!

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Chargar posted this 09 July 2013

The throats were cleaned to the steel before being measured.

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Dale53 posted this 09 July 2013

Speaking of W/C's. It is now 10:30 A.M. and I just finished casting 20lb's of H&G #251 dbl ended W/C's. I was working in my dedicated casting station in my utility barn. It is only 80 degrees but the humidity is 97%. Sitting in front of a hot casting pot the air was so close I could hardly breathe. My left arm is about to fall off (that H&G six cavity iron mould weighs nearly five pounds).

You know what they say, tho' - “no gain without pain” - well, I KNOW what that means.

Now, I can lube/size those bullets in air conditioned comfort! Thank goodness, It isn't in the desert Southwest where they have been having record breaking temperatures (but it's a dry heat, doncha know?LOL)...

FWIW Dale53

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EdS posted this 09 April 2014

Question for Mr. Harris:  I just re-read the article on Revisiting the Full Charge Wadcutter, and wondered why the Saeco #348 was chosen. It has features that may make it easy to cast, easy to load in the case and easy to load into the revolver chamber; but I would be very happy to learn why Ed Harris and his friends chose this particular wadcutter design. Many Thanks, Ed

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Chargar posted this 10 April 2014

I am interested in Ed's answer as to why his choice of that particular WC. I started shooting full WCs in the 38 Special over 3.5/Bullseye back about 1981 and felt that if you wanted a flat nose, then get a flat nose. Here is a pic of my old 1954 vintage flat latch Chief Special and its rounds. The bullet is Hensley and Gibbs 244  with a truly flat nose and not a button nose. The nominal weight is 150 grains. If you want flat, go flat! :-)

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.22-10-45 posted this 11 April 2014

I have a 1905 Colt Bisley in .38 colt. Someone has fitted an early 2nd. gen. .38 Spec. cyl. slugging with pure lead gives .360 in all throats. Bore is .356.

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