I have tried pvc wads with gas checked bullets on and off but could never see an improvement in accuracy and sometimes it seemed to make things worse. Some have had good luck with them especially with plain base bullets which I have no experience.
Do they help gas checked bullets? Plain base? If so what needs to be done to make them work? What size should they be? How thick?
John
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I use them a lot for plain base bullets both breech seated and in fixed ammo. They seem to help prevent leading, some loads leave a lot of lead flakes the plastic wads stop that and improve accuracy over the course of a day of shooting. I use .060 LDPE which I make myself and load them tight to the base of the bullet in the breech seated rifles. In the fixed ammo I want the wad to fit tight in the neck of the case so that it will not slde down the inside of the case somewhere between the bullet and powder. That could make for a bad situation I think and could lead to a ringed chamber or worse. I don't use them in bottle necked cases and have never used any with gas check bullets. I used them in 32-40, 38-55, 40-65, 45-70, 45-90.
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I have used pvc wads extensively in BPCR with black powder. They are my choice. I seem to have more consistent groups at long range with their use.
I use .060” thick wads and cut them myself with a press mounted die set.
Dale53
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John,
In 2003, using the .222 Rem, MX3-22 bullet, and 10.5 H4227, I shot a whopping 4 groups to test PVC wads. These are .062 gray PVC wads, cut about .225 diameter.
At a regular match at Washtenaw we shot 4, 5-shot groups for record. 2 groups with wads: .616 and .676, average .646. 2 groups without wads: .768 and .809, average .788.
There isn't much difference (.142), but enough that I kept using wads with the .222 Rem.
A question for you: Do the Lee collet dies size the case neck all the way to the neck/shoulder junction?
Paul
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I use a LDPE wad under a plain base bullet in my .32-20 and drive it at 1800fps with superb accuracy. I doubt it would do as well without the wad.
Cheers from New Zealand
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Thanks to all for your comments on using wads.
Paul Pollard wrote:
"A question for you: Do the Lee collet dies size the case neck all the way to the neck/shoulder junction?"
Paul,
Thanks for your 222 specific info. A short test is better than none.
As far as neck sizing and the collet die -- I just went downstairs and tried to fine out by measuring with the thin part of the blade of my digital caliper. As nearly as I could tell the collet die does size all the way to the neck/shoulder junction. Why do you ask?
Hope to see you at the nationals in Kansas City in September. We miss Team Pollard.
John
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I ask, because I'm using a bushing neck die right now and it only sizes about .100 down on the neck. The rest of the neck is unsized. When using wads, the wads tend to fall into the powder area. By sizing the neck all the way down to neck/shoulder junction, the wads should be held more firmly in the case. I'm also trying to size the wads tight enough that they don't move when the bullet is chambered and engages the rifling. This should keep the bullet at a constant overall length. When sizing with a smaller die bushing to keep the bullet from moving, I pulled some bullets and the gas checks stayed in the cases. This didn't seem like a good condition. Larger bushing, and the bullet slipped and slided too much.
Thank you for responding.
Nationals? I hope so.
Paul
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Paul, in my neck bushing die , I turn the button over and size lower on the neck.
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Bet that you are using a Wilson bushing die, I've had several and they do that. I have a couple Saeco and they will size the complete neck. I had a bench rest friend that sent his Wilson back to the factory and they modified it to size the complete neck. I don't think that it cost much just out a little time. I've called them a few times and they were always helpfull and friendly.
Richard
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Some people will not use wads in bottle neck cases for fear of the wad being displaced into the case just before ignition and producing a “ringed chamber/barrel".
I've used 0.060” tick ploy wads in revolver cases for years. I also use them in my BPCR .40-70 SS. I have read that some folks think that the use of polywads in their BPCR loads can produce case stretching but I've seen no evidence of it so far. Am experimenting right now with 0.060” veggie wads and the poly wads to see if there is any accuracy advantage using one or the other.
Tom
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Tom,
I will be interested in what you find out. We all try different things in a half vast manner but it is surprising how few real tests are run comparing two conditions and with enough shots to tell if the difference is real.
Or at least few get reported so everyone can benefit. I am guilty as well. No wonder we are still speculating over some of the same old things that we were forty years ago.
John
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I tried flipping over the die bushing; it still sized to the same depth on the neck. This die is like the Wilson and has no up/down adjustment.
Made my wad punch bigger and now the wads are .245 (they were .243).
Expanded the case mouth .0005 over the bullet diameter, seated a wad, seated a bullet and chambered a dummy round.
Found out that even with a fat pvc wad, the bullet will push back into the case when chambering.
All my wishful thinking would not hold the bullet at what I thought was the correct OAL.
Found out that fat pvc wads will expand the case neck to cause a very tight fit in the chamber of the rifle.
I will try to report back on this project. I have only changed 3 things at this point, so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what really had the desired result. The 3 things: Seating depth, neck tension, gas check sizing, and wad fit (that's 4). I'm sure I'll find something else to look at, too.
At this time, I feel confident that these wads will not rattle around and fall into the powder area. They are very snug in the case and hand pressure will not push them further into the case.
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Paul: I shot benchrest competition for many years. You have to size the case mouth 0.002” to 0.003” Under bullet diameter to keep it reasonably firm in the case. I can't imagine a thin, flexible wad preventing bullet movement.
What materials do you and others use to cut your wads from? I'd like to try wads under my plain base cast bullets. Thanks, Ed
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Eds I use LDPE for my plain base loads “Low Density Poly Ethlene” places like Buffalo Arms has it I bought mine form a plastics warehouse. The bigger problem is finding the right size punch. What size are you looking for?
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Like any true wad, straight cases are easiest to work with. I use them also in my .310 Cadet. The good thing about LDPE is it expands radially under pressure and even a slightly undersized wad in the Cadet still shows rifling marks when recovered. They really are very good.
Cheers from New Zealand
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Eds I use LDPE for my plain base loads “Low Density Poly Ethlene” places like Buffalo Arms has it I bought mine form a plastics warehouse. The bigger problem is finding the right size punch. What size are you looking for?
nimrod: I load for both .357 and .44 magnum revolvers. I prefer to cast plain base bullets and would like to try some LDPE wads. Thanks, Ed
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I can't help any there, all that I have is for rifles .32, .38, .41, .46 I would like to try some .357 myself.
Richard
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EdS
My material came from McMaster-Carr, which is local for me and I can pick it up. (They also ship everywhere). The gray PVC sheet was #8747K12, 1/16 x 48 x 96 inches and cost $44.52. They also have other sizes; a 12 x 12 is #8747K111 and is $2.72.
They carry LDPE sheet also. Their #8657K911 is 1/16 x 48 x 96 inches and costs $35.77. The LDPE is a bit cheaper. I looked up the data sheets for it and it looks like LDPE is more flexible and has low tensile strength.
You are right. The plastic wad did NOT hold the bullet to a “hoped for” overall cartridge length. The bullet pushed back into the case even with the wad.
As a way of changing wad sizes without altering the die, I tried heating the strips while punching. When the wads returned to room temperature, they were a bit smaller than when punched when the plastic was at room temperature. I also tried the other way by putting strips in the freezer, then punching. When they warmed up, they were a bit larger.
The .30 caliber people may not have as much problem with gas checks pulling off as I have had with the 6mm. That's why I was trying to size the case necks a bit less, with less tension.
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Paul: Thanks for the information on the wad material. I can order from McMaster-Carr. Have done so in the past. Once I get some experience with the wads, I'll post some results. -Ed
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I have A Redding deprime bushing die for my 6BR, etc. With this die you can adjust how much bushing goes down neck. I also have sent my fired cases back with Wilson Die to Wilson they will open die to fit case perfectly, just pay shipping cost. Pete
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I also have sent my fired cases back with Wilson Die to Wilson they will open die to fit case perfectly, just pay shipping cost. Pete
AHHHHH the solution !!! MUCH needed to shoot cast bullets!
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