45ACP Accuracy with SWC moulds

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  • Last Post 13 August 2016
rmrix posted this 01 November 2010

I am sure this 1911 stuff has been worked out long ago but I know nothing of the accuracy potential of 45 ACP SWC bullets when compared to other designs.

From those of you who have done some comparison shooting I would be interested in hearing what you have learned.

Are SWC 45 ACP target bullets like the H&G 68.452 SWC and H&G 130.452 better/more accurate than Lyman 225gr. RN style? (It is hard to beat the RN for feeding and reliability)

I shoot Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette matches each month with Bernie Rowles of Old West Bullet Moulds, he made available the use (loan) of the two H&G moulds and I have the option to buy one of them. I have other 45 moulds so I really do not need additional moulds but would consider it if there was some great improvement in accuracy to be had.

Is the long nosed H&G 68.452 SWC a more accurate design than others? This is the mould that is in the best shape and cast bullets closest to fitting right out of the mould. I have been putting all my 45 ACP cast bullets through a Lee .452 push-through die after pan lubing them. Pan lube makes for less mess in ALL ways; dies, magazine, storage trays and handgun. And, it is fast!

Without knowing much at this point, it would seem to me that the design of the short sided SWC would cut clean holes in target paper, but at the expense of good support and alignment in the chamber and bore. The longer supporting sides of the RN looks to be better at this job. Is this true or what is the real story? I am sure the bulls-eye match shooters reading this know what really works.

I am only starting to put these type of loads on paper and have no opinion about them yet.

Thanks in advance for weighing in on the merits of these different bullets!

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oscarflytyer posted this 13 August 2016

no comparison shooting, as a H&G 68 clone was my very first mold (a MiHec!).  But I know my previous old beater 1911, my son's R1911 and the R1911 I inherited from my FIL all shoot the H&G 68 great! Def as well as my old eyes and rebuilt shoulders will shoot.  I can often post 5 shot cloverleaf holes at 10 yds - which is as good as it gets for me these days.

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MauserMusicMan posted this 12 August 2016

Do you reload? If so, I've had really good luck with Lee's version of the H&G 68 SWC bullet seated with the shoulder flush with the case mouth in my Kahr CW45...these guns are notoriously finicky about what they'll feed. ANY shoulder peeping above the case mouth...no go! I had an XDs and it liked this bullet, but that was my gun a long time ago...yours may be different. I use Tite Group in .45ACP, a shade over 4 grains and it's accurate and produces about 780 fps with the 200 SWC out of my guns' 3.1” barrel. If you don't reload, keep trying the truncated bullet mentioned above from different makers. I'm with you...my son's Citadel 1911 LOVES RN 230s but I've never had a .45 that ate 'em. As for the Sig, well... those are great guns! I'd like to have the only Sig I can afford, the P250. Go for the trade if you try one more more load and it fails...!  :cba:  

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jeff houck posted this 10 August 2016

"I am really trying to find a good enough excuse to buy a Sig P220 and get it past my wife."  

In my home we have a saying: 

New gun, New wife, take your choice.........

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358156hp posted this 10 August 2016

At one point it was usually recommended to try truncated cone design cast bullets in 45 XDs for best reliability. I don't know if that still the favored remedy.

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Revolverman posted this 10 August 2016

Yep...have a Lee RFN that cycles pretty well---not very accurate though.  I am really trying to find a good enough excuse to buy a Sig P220 and get it past my wife. 

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MauserMusicMan posted this 10 August 2016

Have you thought about using a round nose bullet mold? That would be cheaper and less hassle than trading guns (unless you just want a new gun, 'nuff said!  :)

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Revolverman posted this 09 August 2016

I have a Springfield XD which simply won't feed the 452460.  Looking to trade.  Could any of you recommend what I should look at---guns with good rep for feeding SWC's and accuracy?  Thanks.

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MauserMusicMan posted this 07 February 2016

I use the Lee 200 grain bullet over 4 grains of Longshot...it is very accurate in my full-size Citadel 1911 and economical to shoot. It's a great target/practice load...I get 753 fps out of it, just over the 750 fps threshold our local steel shoot competition range places on all loads. It is more accurate than the 230 RN for me. It is close to the H&G...I guess the ultimate test would be if Jeff Cooper would use it...! That we won't know.

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Tom Acheson posted this 30 November 2015

Ken,

The Springfield XD-m (can you believe the m stands for match and it has a 3.8” barrel?) shoots well for me, beter than I can shoot. It seems to like the Accurate copy of the H&G 68 with 4.0 of Bullseye. 

The OAL post above really helped improve accuracy.

My friend bought the same gun in .40 but hasn't shot it much.

I do like the cocked indicator and the round in the chamber indicator but I've been told Glocks also have those.

On every trip to the range, either for a match, a Postal entry or some load development work, I try to stop by at the club's “short range” and shoot a couple mags at 30-feet. 

Tom

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 27 November 2015

tom a. ::: how about a follow-up on your springfield DSM 45 ... my son in law has one in 40 sw ... i am pretty impressed but he has only shot it about 500 rounds ... be interested in any thoughts you might have on a 45 version . thanks .

ken

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wv109323 posted this 27 November 2015

At the National Matches at Camp Perry, I woulld guess that 70 per cent use the H&G 68 design. About 25 per cent use some version of a 185 gn.. bullet and 5 per cent use others. This is in the NRA matches,not the CMP matches where the 230 gn. is mandated. There is a 215 gn. SWC that is also accurate. Yes, I would say the 200 gn. SWC has earned a reputation of accuracy over the RN.

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M3 Mitch posted this 14 October 2015

I have an old RCBS clone of the H&G 68, if you can shoot good enough to get a better score with factory softball than that bullet, you ought to think about going pro. The 68 also just plain works in every 1911 that I have tried it in, while the 185 grain Lyman wadcutter usually requires at least polishing the feed ramp (not really removing any material, just polishing the surface) I have not done any formal accuracy testing (I say that too much!!) but I have seen a lot of good shooting done with the 68. Guys I shot IPSC with back in Idaho most all used commercially cast 68, although many stages could be shot and won with mediocre bullets, if you shot fast enough.

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Dale53 posted this 29 April 2014

Tom; I use the barrel of the gun to set the over all length of my cartridges. Here is a picture: http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/1911Headspace.png.html>

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Tom Acheson posted this 28 April 2014

I have a RCBs 200 SWC and an Accurate Moulds copy of the H&G #68, 200SWC. Additionally, a friend gave me a bunch (700 or so) of 45 bullets, weighing either 170 or 200-grains, most cast of 50/50 ww/ lino. 

i own two 1911A1's, one left the factory in 1913 and the other a “practical ” thing with a Essex slide, Ithica  frame, commander hammer and Bomar rear sight. Shoots good but haven't messed with it for 30-years. 

There were some old reloads in one of my old 100-round boxes, made with the RCBS bullet and 6.5 WW231.  Then I loaded some of the H&G copy with 4.7 of Tite Group.

Just recently bought a Springfield XDm, 3.8” barrel, chambered in .45 ACP. At 7-yards both loads (above) grouped really nice (at least for me). I used an overall length of 1.240” because I had no notes from the earlier days to go by.

Question: with either the 170 or 200-grain bullets, what is the “standard accepted” OAL?  I have enough empty cases to consume all of the bullets I was given and would like to get a pile of load put together to start getting familiar with new gun. I do have Bullseye, 4756 and Unique available also. Per Ed Harris' advice I use a Lee factory crimp die.

Thanks!

Tom

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medium bore shooter posted this 14 March 2012

rmrix,

I've had excellent success using the H&G68. When I was younger the Series 70 Colt I used in competition would shoot 2"@50yds.

That was after I slugged my barrel and found out it was .449 diameter and changed my sizing die to .451. It won't shoot .452 bullets of any persuasion worth a darn, and generally leads up where the chamber ends and the rifling begins.

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Dale53 posted this 14 March 2012

Here's my 1911 with a Ultra Dot sight. It was built up by a FINE local pistol smith (Harold Johnson) and will do better than 2” at fifty yards. I have about 100,000 rounds of my cast bullets through this. 75,000+ of those rounds were full house IPSC rounds.

If I had shot that many jacketed bullets through this gun I would have had to replace the barrel every five thousand rounds to maintain accuracy. Ray chapman (World Champion IPSC) had put over 200,000 rounds through his Pachmayr 1911 and it was still shooting well.

This was shot with my 625-8, standing, at 25 yards and will explain why I love my Mihec #68 mould and handgun combination:

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Dale53 posted this 28 February 2012

>>>Someone might suggest that I inordinately love the 1911.<<<

I might suggest you know what you are talking about;).

A good 1911 is about as good as it gets...

Dale53

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giorgio de galleani posted this 28 February 2012

I have no inhibitort brakes,Now this is from a pisto made with a hodge-pdge of parts.

A slide  unmarked from a Swiss gun show,many years ago it was legal,The original slide was cracked from hard use,

The frame is marked.UNITED STATES PROPERTY. M1911A1 US ARMY ,SA ,FJA

Te barrel is a 45Acp from Norinco.

Someone might suggest that I inordinately love the 911.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 28 February 2012

This is what I can do shootig as fast as I can from the Weaver stance at roughly 18 yards.

Not comparable to what good shooters can do.

 

But it shows a reliable and economic ammo at work.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 28 February 2012

I have two of lees 6 cavity mould for their replica of the H&G #68.

They are enough for my very modest pistolero ability.

Feed well through my various barrel, Kimber,Norinco and Armando Piscetta. 

You can see some of my bullets,a358Swc a 230 round nose ,a 200 Tumble lube that doesnot cycle well and the #68 replica.

I size it 454 and pass the whole cartridge into the Lee factory crimp die. 

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