why is my lead blue????
reduced temp in pot and still traces of blue in pot and in cast bullets
why is my lead blue????
reduced temp in pot and still traces of blue in pot and in cast bullets
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Hi, Nolan. There's various experts here in metalurgy who could explain it better than I, but basically, you've heated it to the point where certain oxides have formed. Lowering the temp after they have formed won't make it go away. Fluxing well will release some of the oxygen, returning some of the lead to the melt and the rest can be skimmed off. It happenned to me last year when I let the pot get way to hot. I was casting ingots. Later, I remelted the alloyed ingots and everything was fine.
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Thanks. Heat was my first guess. I was casting with the same pot settings but the alloy was lead chimney flashing. stuff is really soft. Shoots in BP guns great. Like butter.
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YEP, Soft lead + high heat = rainbow blue wierdness.
Hey I just noticed your from Sullivan. I used to shoot at the Little Indian Creek, public range. Not many serious shooters, or casters out there. Glad to see some local CBA involvement.
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I have a question about the blue colored melted lead.How will that effect a bullet if you went ahead and casted the bullet while it is blue color?
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That blue is a layer of lead oxide on top of the melt. Cast bullets having any oxide content won't hurt anything by itself, but bullets will be inconsistent weight and with uneven weight distribution within the bullet leading to flyers. JMHO
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As an added note, the lead oxide will turn to a white powder later, depending upon humidity. Metallic lead is non-toxic, but the lead oxide is toxic and can be absorbed into the body.
Besides the heat risk, the antimony and antimony oxide is about 100 times more toxic than the lead, which is why good housekeeping is required with the dross.
HTH, Ric
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Ricin, very informative thanks for sharing,I had no idea and will get rid of the old shot that has gone powdery white.....can I remelt this and flux it ?;}
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That sort of lead must be sent to someone in Missouri for “proper disposal” :cool:
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Pretty much every time you fire your pot up it will generate oxides of some sort. If you cast little bullets like 22's, you have to have the heat high enough to change color or the mold wont stay hot. It's not a bad thing to make the alloy change color on top, it just changes the absolute blend ratios a bit, which is happening anyway even at low temp. I don't know many molds that will cast at 500 degrees. And that about as high as you can go without some form of oxide generation.
So cast away with the color change, maybe put foil on top of the pot to keep air from freely circulating over it but dont flux often. Every time you open the top layer to air, the oxides will form. But the oxides will seal the balance of the load form air. So that layer will prevent deeper oxidation. If you flux or stir the load, you will expose more clean alloy to air.
So the bottom line is leave the oxides when you roll the pot real hot so that you get as little loss as possible....... but your going to loose the top layer.
Unfortunately the alloy will separate a bit and the bullets will get a grain or two lighter from first bullet to last. But typically I have found that the heat treatable status of the various bullets remains unchanged. So the bullet that is 2 gr light, last bullet, HT's as well as the first heavy bullet. So I don't believe the alloy separates enough to cause the arsenic and antimony to be liberated or condensed into the top or bottom layers.
AS for the toxicity.... the pot is a waste dump, period. If it went in the pot, whats left will kill you slowly or maybe a bit quicker. Color wont matter, it's all bad. Arsenic! It's a heavy metal salad of oxides that we cant even see, the white stuff is just the noticible one. Yellow powder, thats a good one too. I get that all the time.
Just dont eat it, smoke it and remove it to a proper waste location when it is consolidated.
I know that the statement that I made about “flux infrequently” completely bucks the system and goes against all that is scriptural BUT>>> I don't loose alloy over and over and over, all night long. I loose a specified and controlled bit of alloy and I get a lightening of bullets but I have yet to find after bullet sorting, any issues with the final bullets, accuracy, leading, flyers, consistency, loadability, sizing, etc.
This is my experience since I joined the CBA and I only know what I have read and learned on this board and have experienced during my loading sessions. You may have other experiences that contradict what I have found to be true. I almost always have to cast making the rainbows in order to get proper mold fillout, keep mold temp up and get good bullets.
70% of my molds are LEE molds. Thats makes for a hot pot usually and is the reason (more than likely) for my rainbows.
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One factor to take into account is whether you are ladle or bottom-pour casting. With a bottom-pour, you can leave the oxide layer which, by itself, will reduce the oxidation of the melt below it. Or you can use kitty litter/floor sweep/charcoal, Marvelflux/whatever on top and cast away from the bottom with little problem.
I've run into inconsistencies ladle casting at high temps, so to reduce the problem, I cast at about 700F max and keep the molds hot by rotating 2 molds in the casting session and using a hot plate. I find I can cast one bullet (these are big 500+ gr 45 bullets) then set the mold on the hot plate, take the second mold, that is already on the hot plate, open it and drop the bullet, immediately refilling it, and so on.
.30 caliber rifle and all pistol bullets, I use the Lee 20# bottom pour and get good results. But then, I'm not casting .22, which are notorious for needed to be cast at higher temps. I don't think keeping the mold hot would be a problem with these, as there's more mold material there (smaller bullets). Not sure about Lee or any other aluminum mold, as I only have one, a gang mold for 44 pistol and it likes to run hot also.
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DB,
I have a bottom pour pot and have never used a ladle!
Never even considered a ladle, dang! And I bet 50% of casters use a ladle.
Well, there you go. That busts every statement I made. I appreciate you bring that to my attention. I have a ladle, it's rusty and I got it in a mould buy. Just have yet to use it.
I can see the ladle issue coming into play. The separation of dense layers and you dip thru it. You get some non-integrated material in each dip plus the stuff on top. Thats a pretty huge problem, or it could be at least.
AS for 22's, even with a side hot plate and lyman or RCBS DC molds, they are hard to keep hot enough to get fill (as I have experienced), especially with 45gr bullets. So my pot has to be furiously hot. I know some folks with Lee 22's, struggle to maintain heat at any temp. It takes a good 20-30 bad casts to get the 22's up to temp to get fill, and I can't in any case, ever get a frosty 22!
My lee pot has a worn and clogging valve. I may be getting acquainted with that ladle here next week as I wont likely get replacement parts anytime in the near future.
Thanks Bill. Sometimes the most obvious things go completely without thought.
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