Colin & Bruce,
Thanks for the input.
By seating to top lube groove instead of crimp groove, I get the COL to a very close approximation to what's listed in Lyman 49th. Also, AFAIK, seating long is generally an excellent way to keep pressures and/or pressure curves under control. Plus, it's what Ed Harris & Mikey (GBO) recommended ;)
As far as .38 S&W effectiveness as a defense round. . .you're right, there is little modern discussion in print about this caliber in any role, much less the SD/HD role. Specifically the .38S&W/200 and the .38SPL/200 are somewhat disputed, insofar as anyone pays attention to them at all anymore. Anecdotal evidence does what anecdotal evidence normally does--it provides evidence of both success and failure, and in the .38S&W the most widely-distributed anecdotes tend to ridicule it. One story is about a 200g (actually a .38SPL) bouncing off a car door during penetration testing, leaving only a scratch. The cop allegedly remarked, “Stop, or I'll scratch your paint!” Another is about a Brit .380 Rimmed slug failing to penetrate a German overcoat!
As some others have remarked. few lead bullets at a 45 degree angle will penetrate car doors anyway. From a 90 degree angle, many claim a .38SPL/200 shoots thru a car. The NYPD apparently considered it, in LRN profile, effective enough against cars, but not against people (due to overpenetration but small wound channel). For SD/HD, I'm not worried about shooting thru cars, whereas LEOs must.
On the German overcoat story, it specifically referred to the 178g FMJ version of the .380 Rimmed cartridge. But I've also come across a NUMBER of references to this ammo functioning dreadfully--one poster states he fired a lot of it while in the Hong Kong Police, IIRC, and actually saw a number come out the barrel and fall to the ground. Now we all know that such performance cannot be a result of cartridge or revolver design--it's obviously some poorly-made ammo, or ammo degraded by weather, oil, etc. (And yes, I intend to find some old overcoat material & shoot it with a 200g!:cool:
This evening I'll post some more thoughts on what may have made the .38 caliber 200g bullet tumble, or not tumble, and how I hope to test my hypotheses. Often the positive testimonials applaud the tumbling characteristic. . .but the negative testimonials about weak stopping power would seem to indicate that one can't always expect tumbling, or that tumbling may not prove effective in stopping an opponent.
My current hypothesis is that several factors may have caused certain bullet/load designs to tumble, whereas others would not. If a heavy, .800-long bullet indeed tumbles, the wound channel must be considerable, as for part of its travel it is presenting a .800 x .359ish frontal area.
If such a heavy bullet drills straight through nose-first, a “pointy” 200g LRN probably tends to have the same defects as the old police standard, the .38SPL 158g LRN, in that it “slips” thru rather than smashing or cutting thru. If a blunt 200g drills straight thru, I would presume its frontal area resembles a flat-nose meplat more than it does a “pointy” LRN, thus it would create a decent wound channel. Not as wide or sharp as an expanded HP, of course, but it would certainly go deeper. Also, most agree that lead. especially soft lead with a blunt shape, wreaks holy havoc on any bone it hits, tending to smash its way thru. Other bullets may pierce it or simply glance off it,
Now, to penetration & its role in the potential effectiveness of such bullets. Read “The Ayoob Files,” or any other source that strives to detail gunshot wounds in SD/HD situations, and note the number of bullets--expanded or otherwise--that fail to punch decisively thru raised arms, bones, and Lord knows what else, and still retain energy to reach the BG's vitals. Other stories abound of unexpanded HPs, plugged by clothing, etc. I'm certainly no expert, but my eyes tell me that a low vel .38 cal 200g slug w/flat nose plows straight thru 36 inches of water, plus 12 layers of plastic, and still retains some energy. I just have to believe that puts it into a totally different class than 110, 125, or even 158g bullets--and 1920s Brit + 1990s US tests seem to verify that .38 cal. 200g slugs do not deviate from their paths, whereas lighter bullets do.
Final note: at many angles, a 200g heavyweight would doubtless blast straight thru a BG. I believe that at any angle, it would get very, very deep into him. Now, our beleaguered LEOs are liable to be sued for anything they do, to include an “overpenetrating bullet.” If I lived in an apt. complex, I would have the same concern. But I live in a rural environment, with a house that offers a 60-foot indoor shot, with lots of leather furniture for a BG to dive behind, and I have no confidence that he will be standing there tamely awaiting a frontal shot. I expect (God forbid) to have to shoot thru some combination of leather furniture, raised arms, heavy clothing, and cell phones, into the side of an agile aggressor diving for cover. . .at 10-20 yards range. I expect to struggle to hit center mass, so I WANT PENETRATION, and my family & home layout is such that overpenetration isn't a concern. Plus, I find it hard to conceive of a shot that I would take with a light HP, that I would not take with some other bullet. What if you miss cleanly? And, if I don't hit CNS, the only physical way to stop the BG is to reduce his BP, and I believe an entry + an exit hole will accomplish that faster.
Bottom line: I suspect the 200g .38, whether .38S&W or .38SPL, would have been thought of far more highly if it had been a LFP or LSWC bullet, rather than a LRN. Nothing against HPs, but I think LRNs gave lead a misleading reputation. (Note the .44-40's generally positive rep--it was a LFP.)
