I have a Mossberg 12ga with a 24'' rifled barrel iron sights. Shooting 2.75'' Win AA hulls, Win 209 primers, Clays powder @ 19.4 grs, using Win AA12 wads, 8-pt star crimp, Lee 1oz cast slugs #2 alloy Currently shooting @ 50yds and have almost a 10'' spread for a 5-shot group. (benchrest shooting) Does anyone have any loads i can try to get it to at least a 5'' group? Any info would be great and be appreciated.
Travis
P.S. I have tried changing wads with some success.
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I am shooting .710” round balls with the base cup off a steel wad to centre the ball - cup-up, then fibre and overpowder wads beneath in my Mossy 835, rifled tube. I'm using a Herco load from Lymans shotshell book - best to develope your own data in your gun from their data. They seem a bit hot in mine, but groups into a ragged hole at both 25 yards and 50 yards - maybe 2” at 50, smaller hole at 25. My barrel has a .714” bore with .724” groove diameter. The balls don't 'take' the rifling, but the wads do and spin the ball while holding it centred for good accuracy. Therefore, no leading. You can shoot any hardness ball and a 600gr. ball gives all you need, accuracy and penetration. At 1,500 to 1,600fps, it about matches the heaviest African black powder loads for 12 bore elephant guns.
No slug (that I am aware of that) you can buy will match a hardened ball for penetration on heavy game like big bears - or elephant for that matter - “through and through an elepant's head” (Lt. James Forsyth).
Jeff Tanner of England will cut you a mould (& mail it to you - pay pal or send US$$ after receiving it) for under $40.00 - that's where I got mine from, and 4 (maybe 5) others for other guns. I spray them with bullet-coating moly (MS Moly or Hopppe's moly) before casting.
Edited- Lee also makes what they call a 'Sabot' slug, weighing 525gr. in pure, 506gr. in WW metal. They fit inside a Winchester red field wad (WAA12R?) and are supposed to be accurate. I haven't tried them yet, but have some for testing. I prefer round balls as there is no waist to weaken the 'slug' and since I am receiving exemplary accuracy with the balls I see no reason to change.
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I get good groups with the Lyman slugs. Never tried the Lee. I can get under 5” at 100 yds. with all of the following. Lyman sabot 525gr.., Rem STS, Win red wad, 41 gr. Blue Dot
Lyman foster 475 gr. Rem STS, Win AA(with petals removed), 44 gr. Blue Dot.
Round Ball .665, Rem STS, Win AA wad, 34 gr. Blue Dot
Round ball .695, Rem STS, Win AA wad(petals removed), 34gr Blue Dot
All with fold crimp.
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The Lyman sabot is about 1500fps
The lyman foster is about 1600fps
I have never tried the round balls but I will the next time I set up the chronograph.
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Well that was a little disappointing. Just got back from chronographing the round ball loads. The .695 round ball was about 1250 fps. and the .665 round ball was about 1300 fps. I think I am going to try a little more Blue Dot powder. I wish someone had preasure data.
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I use the .735 gr round ball in my H&R rifled slug gun with 40 gr Blue Dot. Round balls can't tumble or loose stability. I cut a gas seal off a Win AA shotcup for a pocket, inverted to hold and center the ball. I wrap the ball in plumbers teflon tape and roll crimp. No leading and the ball gets a small flat side ring when fired, where it contacts the rifling and is reduced to groove diameter. I get around 1300 fps and shoots very well. Under 2 inches at 50 yards. For hunting ammo use once fired hulls only. The crimp gets weakened after that, and results are more erratic. If roll crimping, be careful of high exposed sprue marks with any projectile, possibly contacting primers in tubular magazines. If you can get the fold crimp to work for you that would be best.
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Before using a .735” ball, please slug your barrel to find it's size. My Mossberg has a .724” groove diameter and I feel the .735” ball, especially in WW alloy would be too large.
As GBertolet, I-too use a cup wad (gas check off an AA wad) to centre the ball, and due to this wad, the ball doesn't actually have to engrave in the rifling. The wad itself will take the rifling and spin the ball.
These loads can also be very accurate in smooth bores - my double used to put out 8” to 10” groups at 100 yards, 3” at 50 and using the heavy, African-era black powder loads.
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In my Mossy, I can't use anything bigger than .720, the barrel slugs out at .725. I use the Lyman Sabot slugs cast in WWs and can keep really good and tight groups of 3.5 inches at 50 yards.
I only use a .690 RB with in a wad and it works well.
Because of a accident with one of my shotguns, I really watch my loads closely. I used information from BPI in a Winchester Cooey shotgun and the barrel lug broke off.
Jerry
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I worked up a new load for my Rem 870 slug gun. The barrel measures .720. I am using a .715 round ball. The round ball weights 520 gr. Win AA case, 44gr Blue Dot, Win red wad with the petals removed, and a fold crimp. About 1475 fps and under 6 in. groups at 100 yards. In 10 shots I get 1 or 2 fliers. I will try some type of filler under the ball or maybe the old #2 Alcan wad.
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I worked up a new load for my Rem 870 slug gun. The barrel measures .720. I am using a .715 round ball. The round ball weights 520 gr. Win AA case, 44gr Blue Dot, Win red wad with the petals removed, and a fold crimp. About 1475 fps and under 6 in. groups at 100 yards. In 10 shots I get 1 or 2 fliers. I will try some type of filler under the ball or maybe the old #2 Alcan wad.
If you could use some sort of cupped wad (gas check off a trap wad) underneath the ball to hold it centred, you might eliminate the flyers and reduce group sizes as well.
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My experience has indicated that the wad is very important. Oddly enough thinner is better in my little H&R fully rifled 12 gauge single shot. Yellow Winchesters work the best for me. A magnum powder might help too. I haven't shot a lot of these loads as I find the recoil a little much after about 5 shots. I wouldn't shoot at a deer much past 75 yards though.
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i have a h&r handi rifle with a rifled slug blr. it didnt take long for me to add a lot of weight and down load the powder. i load 18 gr. of red dot just like it was a skeet load with round ball and lee slug. at 50 yards i am getting 3 to 4 inch groups. with the full powder loads i was flinching and shutting both eyes. unless hunting all i need is enough power to go through both sides of a paper target. i have plans to play around with more loads. one thing i did was to steal the mercury filled recoil reducer from my sons shotgun and put it in the stock it really helps a bunch. joe gifford aka argie1891
if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand
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Travis,
I use the same components as you with the Lee slugs but with 3% less than Lee's recommended charge of AA#5 powder. I have read high praises and severe complaints about the Lee recommendations. What I can tell you is to take a very good look at what the wads look like when you find then down range. Your accuracy will be horrible if the wads look badly torn up with one or more petals missing. Wads will be shredded and cut-up if the fit of the column and slug is restricted enough by bore or choke during firing to chew the wad badly , cut off petals or flatten them backward. This means that the fit is too tight in the bore of your shotgun.
A wad with thinner petals may fix the problem.
Removing the petals may fix the problem.
Sizing the slugs smaller would also work but not very practical unless you are a die maker.
If you use a cushioning wad under the slug to increase column length for the crimp, make sure it is well under diameter and that it is not made of a material that will expand to a larger diameter during firing and increase pressure and / or cut the wad petals.
Using the wrong alloy can cause the problem also. Use only pure soft lead - no alloy, no added tin, no nothing, just pure lead.
My slugs have fine accuracy, less than 2 inch groups at 50 yards, in a smooth bore with IC choke tube in my scoped Winchester 1300. When I change to a tighter choke or a rifled choke tube my accuracy is as poor as yours and I get shredded wads with missing petals and flattened backward petals. The wads look hardly damaged at all with the IC choke tube and accuracy is terrific.
The tight fit will put the breaks on the wad, separate the column and knock the accuracy out of slug shooting. Check your wads!!! They indicate fit of your load to your shotgun.
Gary
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John Carlson
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linoww
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Bud Hyett
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drone
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beltfed
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Lucky1
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RicinYakima
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MP1886
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mashburn
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Aaron
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