45 Cowboy Special, Ruger Redhawk

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linoww posted this 26 March 2024

I just ran a 100 rounds of 45 Cowboy Special loads in my 45 Colt Redhawk. The load was 4.0 of Green Dot and a Lee 200g FP at a bit over .453 diameter lubed with Glen Fryxell's lube. I shot the RH rapidly double action at steel targets,just playing around at lunch. The load is exceedingly clean and I did get a bit of leading in the forcing cone of the gun which I expected as the cylinder throats are "about" .451. The cylinders of course picked up gunk gunk because of the short cases but afterwards 45 colt chambered fine. Nothing much to report here,except green dot seems to be a decent powder for that little case and the 45 Colt. Not sure if there is any advantage of the short "Cowboy" cases but I had some. I use a similar load in 45 Colt brass but 6g in a Henry lever action , it is very accurate sometimes under 2" at 50 yards with iron sights. I have probably 400 rounds of that 6g load though the ugly gun and I've yet to clean it and everything is shooting the same as when I started. Pictures of the gun and the brass show how clean the load really is . The brass is on its second firing with the same load.

 

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Clod Hopper posted this 26 March 2024

The purpose of the .45 Special Cow Boy brass is to make it easier to load low power loads for Cow Boy action shooting.  I have tried various ways to load regular .45 Colt brass down and found it difficult to do.  You will get highly variable velocities if you shoot powder up or powder down. Aklso, there is the danger of double charging the .45 Colt.  The .45 Cow Boy scratches that itch.  It sounds like you have a very good load there for shooting fun.

Dale M. Lock

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linoww posted this 26 March 2024

I understand the purpose of the short brass, but I've never had a problem loading down in a full length case.But then again I'm not trying to shoot 2" groups at 50 yards.i doubt the Cowboy action shooters are either😁

this is a decent load though. I have many pounds of Greendot so I'm using it for my pistol plinking loads.Not that I'm capable of match accuracy with a handgun anyway!

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 26 March 2024

Green Dot is also useful in 16 ga. bismuth loads....

Are your chambers correctly machined in that RH? I have one chamber, maybe more in a .45 Colt BH that is oversize.

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linoww posted this 26 March 2024

They are surprisingly uniform checked with plug gauges. My 45 Bisley had throat only.449. I had to open those up before.I could get the gun to shoot at all.

Don't waste greendot on shotgun loads.....

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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oscarflytyer posted this 27 March 2024

Those cases look a lot like 45 AR.  I was fortunate to have found a RH 45 Colt/45 ACP model.  It won't shoot 45 AR, but... I assume the 45 Colt SPC is basically a target 45 ACP equivalent.  If so I am good to go.

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linoww posted this 27 March 2024

I didn't know know the RH Colt-ACP wouldn't shoot AR,bummer.The problem is the 45 Cowboy brass is hens teeth lately.Its basically a 45 Colt to ACP length.Or an AutoRim with 45 Colt Rim I guess.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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RicinYakima posted this 27 March 2024

Chuck the Auto cylinder in the lather and face off the back of the cylinder to allow AR brass to clear. I've done several over the years and all work perfectly. Auto brass still headspaces on the shelf and the open space is solid brass. 

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linoww posted this 27 March 2024

I think it's true on ACP cylinders on Blackhawks but not on the Redhawks that use the same cylinders for both cartridges, a proprietary moon clip and special ejector is used so it can shoot the auto..

And being with a double action cylinder.You're also dealing with an extractor ,it's something that will not quite work with just shaving off a few 'thou. At least not without a bunch of advanced machining.It's not definitely as simple as taking a little bit off the back of a single action cylinder.

someone chime in if I'm wrong on this?

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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RicinYakima posted this 27 March 2024

You are right, I have no experience nor know how the 45 Colt Ruger Red Hawk can eject 45 ACP from the same cylinder .

 

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Aaron posted this 5 weeks ago

The purpose of the .45 Special Cow Boy brass is to make it easier to load low power loads for Cow Boy action shooting.  I have tried various ways to load regular .45 Colt brass down and found it difficult to do.  You will get highly variable velocities if you shoot powder up or powder down. Aklso, there is the danger of double charging the .45 Colt.  The .45 Cow Boy scratches that itch.  It sounds like you have a very good load there for shooting fun.

If you have not tried Hodgdon Trail Boss powder in your 45 Colt cartridges, it may address all the issues you mentioned. I have had excellent performance with this propellant and my cast bullets. Using 5.5 gr of Trail Boss under an Accurate 45-250D bullet is a pleasant shooting, gnat killing load. You can't double charge that load without spilling propellant all over the loading bench.

There is also no lead buildup caused by shorter cases (ringing) in the cylinders. Continued use of shorter cases will eventually lead to intense scrubbing with abrasives to remove that lead deposit. Below is an image of the lead building up in a customer's 357 Magnum revolver used to shoot 38 Special wadcutters. This revolver would no longer chamber 357 Magnum cartridges. Notice the LEAD buildup, not just "crud."

 

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Aaron posted this 5 weeks ago

 I'm just glad I bought an absurd amount of it 6 years ago.Ive seen the 9oz jugs go for over $200 on gunbroker! I seen a couple jugs go $300

 

Fortunately the pandemic panic is over and a 9oz jug is only $34 on MidwayUSA. While currently unavailable, other sources may have it for about the same price.

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Bud Hyett posted this 5 weeks ago

I didn't know know the RH Colt-ACP wouldn't shoot AR, bummer. The problem is the 45 Cowboy brass is hens teeth lately. Its basically a 45 Colt to ACP length. Or an Auto Rim with 45 Colt Rim I guess.
This is tedious work. You can lathe cut the front of the rim of the .45 Auto Rim to allow chambering in the .45 Colt chamber. This maintains the primer pocket depth. This also means you do not cut on the cylinder, sacred ground to me.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Larry Gibson posted this 5 weeks ago

Actually the "purpose of the 45 cowboy special cartridge was to allow the use of 45 ACP cylinders in SAs for SASS (Cowboy Action) shooting.  The rules required a rimmed cartridge so using 45 ACP cases was not allowed.  Shooters started trimming 45 Colt or Schofield cases to ACP length.  That left the rim the same size as modern 45 Colt cases. 

The added benefit was the improved internal ballistics of the smaller capacity case with the very reduced loads used in SASS competition.  However, given the short ranges and large targets used in SASS competitions the advantage of the smaller case over the 45 Colt case was difficult to demonstrate.  Thus, most serious competitors gravitated to the 38 SPL for SASS competition. 

The 45 Cowboy cartridge is a very efficient cartridge as is it's parent, the 45 ACP.  This is especially true when used in 45 ACP cylinders in SAs.  If not competing in SASS matches the ACP case does as well. 

LMG.

Concealment is not cover.........

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MP1886 posted this 5 weeks ago

The rise of Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) in the 1980s breathed new life into the sales of guns chambered in the .45 Colt. The .45 Colt case had been modified with an extractor groove making it possible to use in rifles. With the added groove, the iconic Winchester and Marlin lever action rifles could feed and extract the .45 Colt.

When I first started competing in cowboy action shooting, I started with a Winchester ’73, and the Ruger Vaquero chambered in the .38 Special. As I dove deeper into CAS, I migrated to a category requiring a cartridge of .40 caliber or larger. The natural choice was the .45 Colt.

The 230-grain round-nose flat-point (RNFP) bullet seemed like a good choice — it smacked the targets with authority! But, I soon realized I didn’t need much lead to make a steel target ring and the recoil was increasing the time to get back on the target. Lee offers a .452 200-grain RNFP six-bullet mold that cranks out bullets once it’s at temperature. The bullet still rings the steel targets and has enough energy to take down knock-down targets.

I was at a major match and had my wife video my performance running through the stages. I was apparently taking too much time on the pistol targets and recoil was one of the culprits. I needed to get back to thwas designed for black powder. Modern smokeless powders don’t take up nearly the same volume and can cause issues with position-sensitive powders.

At first, I thought about going to a .45 Schofield case, but after asking what my fellow competitors were using, I found they had gone to a 160-grain .452 bullet and a reduced powder charge in a particular case made for CAS by Starline Brass, the Cowboy .45 Special (C45S).e recoil of the .38 Special, or at least as close as possible. Loading a full-sized .45 Colt case down can be problematic.

The Cowboy .45 Special was first designed by “Adirondack Jack,” a dreamer who took the cartridge from conception to producing 500,000 for the hungry market. Since then, boutique ammunition companies for the Cowboy Action market have produced the C45S. The loaded ammunition is designed to deliver a 130-grain hollow base or 160-grain solid base bullet at 500 fps. Clearly, it’s not meant for big game hunting but for plinking or steel competition, it fills the bill very nicely.

The C45S is almost identical in size to the obsolete .45 Auto Rim. The bullets can be the same size and weight, but the energy is usually lower in the Cowboy .45 Special.

The .45 Auto Rim is an anomaly in itself. During WWI, gun makers did everything they could to support the war effort, including producing revolvers chambered for the new military .45 ACP. The Achilles Heel? The need for half-moon clips to hold the .45 ACP cartridges in the cylinder properly. With hundreds of thousands of surplus revolvers on the market after the War to End All Wars, the Peters Cartridge Company thought outside the box. It made a rimmed cartridge for those revolvers eliminating the need for moon clips!

As just pointed out, the .45 Auto Rim was designed for use in revolvers made for the .45 ACP and there lies the danger. The .45 ACP generates much higher pressures than what SAAMI recommends for the .45 Colt. At a maximum rating of 15,000 CUP, SAAMI specifications for the .45 Auto Rim are lower than the .45 ACP but still higher than the .45 Colt, so while the starting loads for the .45 Auto Rim can be used in the C45S, some maximum .45 Auto Rim loads can generate unsafe pressures. While newer .45 Colt revolvers most likely can handle the higher pressure, the Colt Single Action Army revolver chambered in .45 Colt has thin cylinder walls. As a result, the pressure is limited to 14,000 CUP in firearms in good condition, proofed for smokeless powder.

Since the C45S is a wildcat round, there isn’t data from major component suppliers like Speer or Lyman. As such, we need to keep pressures at or below the .45 Colt. I am not looking for heavy loads — I want less recoil while consuming less powder and lead. With the rise in cost and scarcity of reloading supplies since 2019, anytime I save expenses, it’s a win.

The .45 Auto Rim and Cowboy 45 Special are just a few thousandths of an inch different in length and diameter. The most significant difference is the rim thickness and diameter. A 45 Colt resizing die will work, and with a bit of adjusting, the neck sizer also reaches. Some use the 45 ACP crimp die, but many, like myself, prefer a roll crimp vs. taper crimp. The difficulty with such a short cartridge will be roll-crimping the loaded round.

I wouldn’t say I like splitting up die sets to make something work. When Adirondack Jack was selling the C45S, he recommended the Hornady 45 Auto/AR/Win three-die set (#546554). It was made for the .45 Auto Rim, so no modifications are required.

In most cases, Hodgdon’s Trail Boss would be my first choice for the Cowboy 45 Special. The large donut-flake powder fills the case nicely and eliminates position sensitivity issues. But Trail Boss isn’t in production as I write this, and 9-oz. bottles are selling at auction for $200 so I looked for loads using powder available in a post-COVID world.

My choices are Red Dot, Bullseye, Titegroup and FFF black powder. During testing, all gave fairly consistent velocities. I draw from a holster in competition and gravity will act on the gunpowder, pulling it away from the primer. I have had issues with reliable ignition with powders in the .45 Colt case, but it wasn’t the situation with the C45S. The case did its job by reducing the available space inside the case.

Red Dot has been my go-to low-velocity powder since the early 1980s and I have used it for thousands of .38 Special loads. Of the smokeless loads I worked up, it was the bulkiest and approached what Trail Boss would have been. Heavier loads, filling the cases better, gave very consistent velocities.

Many claim Titegroup to be unaffected by position, so I chose it as one of my test loads. I found the standard deviation decreased as the powder volume increased, which is to be expected.

Bullseye is a perennial favorite for any reloading room but finding it during the last three years has been problematic. Luckily, I found a local shop with 5-lb. jugs at pre-2020 prices. One of the jugs went home with me. Of the powders I tested, it gave the velocities closest to what I was seeking.

Since many cowboy-action shooters prefer the Holy Black, I also tested Goex FFFg black powder. Remember no air gap is allowed between the powder and the bullet if you use black powder. Most BP shooters compress the charge just a little. I am one of those. If you use less powder than what is listed, use a filler like cornmeal, grits or a fiber wad to make the difference. If a black powder substitute is chosen, follow the manufacturer’s recommendations for loading.

Before you turn your nose up at using black powder, I found it gave the best accuracy of all the loadings. The grey clouds of smoke it produced also provided a respite from the clouds of gnats flying into my eyes, nose and mouth during the hours of testing!

 

This article was by ALAN GARBERS in Guns Magazine

 

 

;

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linoww posted this 5 weeks ago

I talked to hodgton earlier this year and Trailboss hasn't been produced in four years by ADI in Australia. They told me ADI is going to try to start production again at the end of the year.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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oscarflytyer posted this 5 weeks ago

 Lino is Correct on the RH.  Single cylinder.  Cut for 45 Colt.  It uses and works with 45 ACP in the same cylinder, albeit with a proprietary/very thin moon clip.  The Smith 1917/25/625 clips are too thick. 

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pat i. posted this 5 weeks ago

George if the Green Dot is working to your liking in the little cowboy brass live long and prosper. If you ever run out of the short brass just go back to the 45 Colt brass. Whatever makes you happy, and requires no work, is all that matters. Sometimes I don't understand that when a guy gives a simple shooting report it has to turn into a woulda, coulda, shoulda kind of thing. Personally I'd like to see more actual shooting results on here and less theory. And when it comes to results posting one target doesn't mean much. In the immortal words of Ed Doonan "OK that's good but let's see the targets from before and after that one".

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Aaron posted this 5 weeks ago

 If I posted my shooting results on here, I would no longer be a legend in my own mind.

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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pat i. posted this 5 weeks ago

 If I posted my shooting results on here, I would no longer be a legend in my own mind.

 

 

I doubt you'd be alone in that regard.

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linoww posted this 5 weeks ago

Pat, well, I don't have any groups with Greendot in these short  cases in the RH .Here is what the full 45 Colt  case does with 6g and the same bullet. This is the  henry lever with open sites at 100 yards ,group is typical,not best or worst. 

 

 

 

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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pat i. posted this 5 weeks ago

Not much to complain about there. Good shooting.

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Aaron posted this 5 weeks ago

 Good Shooting George! Be sure to show that target to the grand kids and tell them it was shot from horseback!  cool

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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linoww posted this 5 weeks ago

 Good Shooting George! Be sure to show that target to the grand kids and tell them it was shot from horseback!  cool

 

off of a Donkey backwards  with a mirror.

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Brodie posted this 4 weeks ago

George, 
I seem to remember my friend and gunsmith Shigeo milling a Redhawk in 454 Casul to take moon clips for 45 acp.  At least that is what he told me when I asked what the project was. 

B.E.Brickey

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linoww posted this 4 weeks ago

George, 
I seem to remember my friend and gunsmith Shigeo milling a Redhawk in 454 Casul to take moon clips for 45 acp.  At least that is what he told me when I asked what the project was. 

 

I'd imagine you'd have to address having to move the ejector star  back and shortening the ejector rod. 

 

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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