44-40 and 2400 rifle powder...plus others

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Last Post 14 February 2023

Standard Member

Bryan Austin posted this 08 February 2023

I saw this June 1935 dated 2400 powder can and thought I'd share some data. On the load table on the back label it showed that the 44-40 200gr soft point was loaded with 25.4gr and achieved 1,870fps @ 20,000cup. One would have to assume what bore this would be with a .4255" diameter jacked bullet. During my test with a .429" bore and .4255" JSP Winchester bullets, the velocities were always higher than other larger diameter bullets and the pressures lower....of course right?

With that said, my tests results a while back only used 20gr but with a 200gr .429" Speer 4425 JSHP. This is Lyman's max charge for strong action rifles, not to be used in weak action rifles or in revolvers. Basically the same profile as the 44-40 Winchester 200gr...but larger diameter, but again maybe a larger bore than in 1935.

With the 20gr charge the results were close, only 1,672fps @ 18,461cup...room for a little more powder if I ever needed to test again.

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40

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CBA Member

RicinYakima posted this 08 February 2023

I have the flyer that has the same data. It is interesting, historically, because so much has changed. Hornet loads are grossly over with modern, post 1950, brass. However, it was still good as long as Hercules was making powder for the 32 WCF as they were not balloon head cases after the middle 1920's. But they are not valid for any Alliant 2400 labeled "Magnum Handgun Powder" instead of the old "Rifle-Handgun-Shotgun" powder of the pre-1990's.

I am so glad you are posting all this old stuff, so the newer (under 70) reloaders have a fix on where we came from and where we are going!

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Standard Member

Bryan Austin posted this 08 February 2023

Sharpe's 1937 2400 44-40 RIFLE data that shows such differences in all around results. He also notes that the charges were recommended by Hercules.

Winchester .4255" JSP

20gr - 1,385fps @ 9,500cup (my results 20gr1,672fps @18,461cup using the Speer .429" 4425 JSHP)
23.5gr - 1,700fps @ 14,000cup
25.4gr - 1,870fps @ 20,000cup
27.5gr - 2,100fps @ 33,000cup

As a reminder, Winchester's 44 W.H.V. loads had a service pressure of only 18,000cup (February 1917)

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40

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Standard Member

Bryan Austin posted this 12 February 2023

For those interested in some detailed factory history and handloading data of the 44 Winchester High Velocity cartridges, check here

Aside from Winchester's factory use....the most interesting are the three popular powders that offer such factory load data for such a popular cartridge...

1903 - Laflin & Rand Sharpshooter - no handload data - as used by Winchester - 20gr, 1,500 fps @ 18,000 cup
1912 - Du Pont Sharpshooter - 19gr High Velocity
1914 - Hercules Sharpshooter - 19gr High Velocity
1935 - IMR 1204 - Load Data Label on back on can - 30gr @ 1,830 fps
1932 - Hercules 2400 - Load Data Label on back on can - 25.4gr, 1,870 fps @ 20,000 cup
1935 - IMR 4227 - Load Data Label on back of can - 29gr @ 1,890 fps
1936 - Hercules Sharpshooter - 19.6gr, 1,650fps @ 20,000 cup

** There was a .6gr charge increase in 1936 by Hercules. It looks as if this .6g increase changed the velocity from 1,570 fps to 1,650 fps as well as increasing the chamber pressure, deviating from Winchester's service pressure of 18,000 cup, to 20,000 cup. Other powder handload charges increase velocity and a chamber pressure as high as 33,000 cup.

I certainly believe that the WHV loads were a heck of a lot more popular than folks realize. If not, why such load data and availability for nearly 45 Years!!! Why all of a sudden after WWII, or at least in our lifetime (1944 to Present), was such an offering forgotten, misunderstood or deemed too dangerous.

Because this data has been forgotten, DO NOT USE ANY OF THIS DATA AS ACTUAL MODERN DATA, and Winchester advised against such loads in the Winchester 73' rifle and all revolvers.

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40

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Standard Member

Bryan Austin posted this 14 February 2023

Another load data chart, this one from "Arms and The Man", Jan 1, 1923...page 14.

Condensed for viewability!

NOTE the "language" between "low-power", "High Velocity", and "standard factory". The reference of low-power actually has a higher pressure than standard factory. The "language" is important.
Also note that the 14,000cup rifle pressure is 1,000cup higher than SAAMI m.a.p. now days as well as the 1917 Winchester Engineering data of 13,000cup.