Does any one have experience with 4831 in a 308 or 30-06? I got about 20 pounds, from a friend, of MR3100. It is a surplus powder and according to the information that came with the powder it says to use IMR 4831 load data. I don't shoot jacketed any more and was wondering if anyone has experience with this or similar powders in cast loads.
thanks Carl
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Carl, nice shooting. I'm going to try that load in my 30-06 CZ with a 7.62 adapter in it. It's worked fine with FMJ type stuff. 3/4"! I'm jealous, haven't broke the 1” barrier yet.
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I loaded up 10 rounds of 308 last night with 40gr of the MR3100 (4831), a Winchester LRP and a 200gr 311299 not heat treated bhn of 14-16. Went out to the range this morning to try them out. The first 2 rounds went about 3” high right and the next 8 went one 3/4 inch hole. Wish I had loaded up more. There was no sign of leading and the case necks were not blackened. I hope that this was a sign of things to come and not a one time group, as has happened before.
Thanks for the help guys. will let you know how the 458 works.
Carl
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Sounds like I better get the book. I have read a few articles by Paul Matthews. they were all very interesting. The 4831 powder that I have is some of that WWII surplus. The guy I got it from paid $12 for 8 pounds
Thanks Carl
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boats; it was quite a few years ago when I was playing around with a Ruger #3 45-70. Picked up a book, (again), this one called “Forty Years with the .45-70, by Paul A. Matthews. You have to get that book. You'll have years of fun messing around with his loads, most of which I can't recommend here or I'd get 86'd. He was very experimental, and said 4831 was about $27 for a 50 .lb drum! You know he used a lot, including thousands of duplex loads. He got some of his ideas from E.H. Harrisson. In his book he mentions a “caseful” of 4831 under a 362 gr. bullet. The specifics are there, get the book, you won't be able to put it down. He had me launching some interesting stuff. Never had the slightest sign of pressure or any other problems using his loads. I took it a step further and tried IMR 5010 in the 45-70. Totally wrong powder for a straight walled case, but it was so cheap it was like shooting for free. Have fun. To cover my @&* I should say always check a up to date loading manual to be sure of what you're doing. .>
Ammoe, I understand the need for speed.
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AMMOe ,I tried a test of your recipe in the 8mm06 with the LEE 175 just for grins to see if it would lead with my water dropped bullets and RCBS HV lube (what was in 45 sizer at the time ) . Just popped it off out back into backstop and no leading and it left a tell tell wet muzzle from lube so I loaded up 5 to try for a short 25 yd group and see what happens. Now if it will quit raining .
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I used to shoot 4831 in my Trapdoor. Fifty-three grains with a 400 grain bullet. Mild, dirty, and non corrosive!~AMMOe
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Thanks AMMOe and Sookie joe. Now I have a place to start. If I could come close to 3/4” groups everyone at the range would hear about it.
tturner53, What load did you use in the 45-70? I have a 458x2 that is a belted mag version of a 45-70 and use 45-70 or marlin 450 load data. Have never tried slow powder in it mostly RL7 and 4198. It will shoot 1” with 350gr jacketed but the best I have gotten with CBs is 2".
Carl
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40 Grs. 4831, 311284 Bullet in 30-06 has been a good load for me.
Thanks. That's the neighborhood I was looking at! Nice to have it confirmed.~AMMOe
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40 Grs. 4831, 311284 Bullet in 30-06 has been a good load for me.
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Make sure you remove as much copper as possible. I have found that low pressure loads will tolerate a bit of copper fouling residue but higher pressure loads will not. It may not be a hard and fast rule but I have had good success by keeping jacketed bullets out of my rifles once I get them clean.~AMMOe
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Cool , I'll have to give it a whirl in my '06 . I put Winny '06 take off barrel '98 Mauser action that shoots good with jacketed stuff . I cast up some pretty hard 180 SP RCBS a while back that I can try :)
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My FN Model 50 had an accident before I got it that left it with a 20” tube. I'm guessing at about 2400 fps speed. I could chrono it for you if you'd like. I just happened to dig it out for some 220 grain shooting and would be happy to get some loaded as soon as I get back from my Son's graduation next week. I like that FN but the Brno-actioned 308 gets the hunting nod most of the time. ~AMMOe
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AMMOe , what kind of velocity do you reckon you are getting from the '06 ?
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AMMOe : 3/4” groups! That's darn good shootin'. I'll be bustin out my old 4831. chboats: Sounds like you have access to a good book store. Another thing I've learned is it's a good idea to keep your cast bullet brass seperate from your full power stuff. Mark it with a felt tip pen, like a line near the base. Then you can put it in the dies and chamber the same way each time, (orienting) and help avoid any possible headspace issues when you load heavy jacketed stuff.
I haven't loaded “jacketed stuff” if I could avoid it for about 25 years. The .22 Hornet and 5mm Craig (5mm Remington Rimfire conversion to CF) are the only calibers I do not load cast lead for any more. The .222 gets double duty (cast and jacketed) but that will end soon. I'm going back to heat-treated cast lead for all hunting loads operating at more pressure than a 30-30.
I am one of those guys who likes to push Pb's to the max. I can't imagine loading a 22-250 to 22LR speeds. Too boring. There used to be a few of High Velocity freaks in the CBA a couple of decades back but they are few and far between now, I guess. Now the trend is to get 16-1800 fps from a 30-06 and be happy with it. I'm not built that way. I like to taper the bullet for the throat, gascheck, heat treat, lube and let fly. It takes a bit more head scratching for load development but it's what floats my boat in the cast bullet world.;) And yes, I kill mule deer with heat treated bullets.:shock: ~AMMOe
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Thanks, Ammoe, I'll have to give it a try this summer.
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AMMOe : 3/4” groups! That's darn good shootin'. I'll be bustin out my old 4831. chboats: Sounds like you have access to a good book store. Another thing I've learned is it's a good idea to keep your cast bullet brass seperate from your full power stuff. Mark it with a felt tip pen, like a line near the base. Then you can put it in the dies and chamber the same way each time, (orienting) and help avoid any possible headspace issues when you load heavy jacketed stuff.
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Sure: It's 45 grains of H-4831 and the bullet weight was 188 grns. I had to run it into a 3-degree taper die to fit it with the GC at the neck/shoulder junction. It will shoot 3/4MOA and better for three shots from my Brno Mauser. The primer is a Remington 9 1/2 standard. Speed was just under or at 2300 fps if I remember correctly.
My 30-06 load is 50 grains with the same bullet and primer fired in my FN Model 1950.~AMMOe
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Ammoe, any chance you'd share your charge of 4831 with your 30-180sp? I've never used this in a cast load and wouldn't mind trying it.
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I tried H 4831 in the 30-30 with plain base 150 grain bullets. It didn't work very well but I didn't blow anything up either.
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Thanks for the information. This morning I went down to the local used book store and actually got a copy of E H Harrison's book. I have always been little afraid of duplex loads.
In the book Harrison also suggested using a dacron filler. What are the current feeling about using a small tuft on top of the powder? I don't want to take a chance of ruining a good rifle by ringing the chamber.
I am looking for ways to keep shooting with powder in short supply. Nothing like the smell of burnt gun powder to start the day.
Thanks
Carl
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