Does anyone have experience in loading either the .22 Hornet or the .218 Bee to 1080 fps to simulate the .22 LR Match ammunition?
Especially which bullet to use, either in the forty grain range or the 55 grain range?
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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About 3 gr H Titegroup will get you right about there with either of those weights in cast bullets. But I would start higher and use a chrono. The Titegroup gas excellent ignition with tiny charges and is gaining wide acceptance your type of application. I'd recommend the 225646 because it has a long driving band area and a short steep nose. All that contact when the bullet is correctly sized for your rifle gives a stable start in the chamber and that is where cast accuracy comes from. You will need a chrono to adjust load and some helpful online free software will reduce speed to your selected velocity within 1/10 gr:
http://www.handloads.com/calc/reduced.asp
I wanted 1160 fps and hit it right on the nose with that software.
and the 225646:
Gary
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Bud,
If your using a 16 twist barrel, either of those mold will not stabilize at that velocity.
I had to shorten the Lee mold by .070, to get it to stabilize in my 14 twist @ 1150 fps.
The 225438 will be your best bet if your using a 16 twist.
Frank
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Thank you, I had not thought of Titegroup. And I have access to both molds you talk about.
My research had been with older manuals where Bullseye was the powder.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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Sorry Bud, I had to edit my post. I had a typo and left out "not".
Based on my shooting, you'll need more than 1080 fps for the full length Lee mold, to get non tipping results.
The picture shows what the 225415, 225438 & the full length Lee did in my initial subsonic testing with my 14 twist Pac Nor barrel.
Frank
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All the arithmetic in the world doesn't make a cast bullet behave like a jacketed bullet. Cast bullets are not sensitive to twist/bullet weight/velocity like jacketed bullets. They are, however very sensitive to fit. First see if the bullet chambers un-sized. If it doesn't, use the minimal sizing that will allow chambering. A slide fit to the chamber is easily verified with an inked bullet dummy round. If at least the first driving band shows a slide fit and you can feel the bullet takes 1 to 2 pounds more push to chamber than a jacketed bullet, Congratulations you have an excellent bullet size that fits your rifle with a stable fit to the chamber and THAT is where accuracy comes from with cast bullets, NOT ARITHMETIC.
A good fit with either bullet at 22 RF velocity and you should expect 1" groups or less at 50 yards. You don't need any special lube, Lee LLA or Whites Deluxe 45:45:10 don't have velocity limits when bullets fit first. I tumble lube once lightly with warmed bullets and warmed tumble lube once before sizing and once after. If you are not sizing then one coat is fine.
You could be a daring kind of guy too. IF you get the fit I described and your bullets are pure lead for that load level, you won't even need lube. However, if your fit stinks, you will have barrel leading up the wazoo.
It is important to note that you should only chamber and fire cast rounds that fit like this once. If you extract a round like this, the fit is gone and it needs a new bullet. Don't fool yourself with fit. Re- chambering rounds that fit like this causes them to shoot all over the place.
Gary
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Both rifles are Ruger #1's with 1-14 twist.
I am hoping the .22 Hornet will shoot cast since Alice wants to shoot the Little Bore match at the Nationals. This match is only 100 yards and the .22 Hornet should do well at that range.
The .218 Bee is devastating on prairie dogs to 175 yards and fairly quiet so as to not scare the others. I'd hate to give it up to cast bullets.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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...don't sell the little 438 short ... just pay attention to the bases, need to be square. in my 14 twist remmy 722/222 they were a tad better than my 462 ... strangely, to me the 462 looks like the pick of the two ...
ken
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I have a no. 1 in 218 bee. I use the Lyman 415 without a gas check over 3.2g of AA2. Bullets are lubed with rooster jacket and dusted with motor mica while wet. They go as cast. They may be going faster than what you are looking for but not by much. I tried 2.5g but groups tightened with more speed. I get about 3/4" when I do my part.
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I meant to mention 3/4" at 50 yards. I can get an honest 6" at 150.
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I recently shot this group out of a 10" Contender, 225415 bullet, 4.1 grains of Unique, 100 yards, makeshift rest. This is fairly representative of what that load will do, in my gun anyways.
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Bud,
I understand the temptation to find an accurate subsonic load to reduce wind drift and have tried it more than once both with 14" twist and the required short bullets as well as heavier, and much heavier, in the quicker twists required.
Of the short the old 48 grain 415 bullet worked best for me with Bullseye and TiteGroup.
Tempting as it is I never found success because slightly faster loads always seem to be much more accurate ,more than making up for more drift. It still seems like a good idea. I will be very interested in your testing.
John
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