45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk

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  • Last Post 19 April 2009
[email protected] posted this 24 March 2008

      My son is the owner of a dissapointingly inaccurate Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt.   He has tried several different store bought cast bullets, and different powder combinations, along with some jacketed loads. The best it will do is 3 inches at 25 yards. It is agravating.

     Anyhow,  reading about the Rugers I understand that sometimes the throats are the problem. So I slugged the throats and the barrel and came up with .450 throats and a .450 bore. Has anyone else seen these dimentions in the Rugers?

     It seems to me that throats and bore being the same size one ought to be able to get it to shoot something.

     I just ordered a Lee mold and their.451 sizing outfit. I thought I'd try some softer bullets in the gun. Those store bought cast are pretty hard. They all mike .452    

      I guess I could come up with a .450 die for my Lyman 450 sizer but my son might bail out and get married or something and then I'd be stuck with an odd die.  Hopefully the .451 will shoot.

      If anyone has more insight on this topic it would be most welcome.

      Flasnman     

      

 

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George Tucker posted this 06 April 2008

All my Ruger 45 Colt Revolvers had cyls that were undersize, causing the throats to size the bullets to much, before entering the bore, i sized all my cyls to .4525. all my revolvers shoot fine now, Ruger is terrible about undersizing cyls in their Blackhawk 45 cal Revolvers, JMO, George.

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runfiverun posted this 07 April 2008

what george said

s&w has also had this problem

both of them also have been known to have a tight spot in the threads

where the bbl screws into the frame

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[email protected] posted this 09 April 2008

George,

          Thanks for the reply. I cast some of the Lee 255gr round flat from unquenched wheel wieghts. To my surprise they came out of the mold at .450-.451. I tumbled them in liquid alox and with a light load of 7 gr. of unique the gun shot noticably better. I was able to get a couple of groups down around 1.5 inches with the barral of the gun resting on the sand bags. If I rested the butt on the sandbag, with the barrel unsuported,  about 2.5 inches was the best I could get. I think I found that a lot of the accuracy problems come from the fact that the gun is just hard to shoot. Even with a spring kit installed the trigger is lousy; alot of creep. And the grips are to small.

         I guess my old Colt officers model, O.P's and Trooper have me spoiled. They have wonderful single action trigger pulls and shoot any reasonable load into 1.5 ” or less without a bunch of work. If that Ruger was mine it would be gone.

Flashman

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Dale53 posted this 18 April 2008

There is little reason to get rid of a Ruger because of a bad trigger (nearly every Ruger I have ever seen, and I have several, had less than satisfactory triggers). They just need a trigger job. Afterwards, you will have a really GOOD revolver. I treasure mine.

S&W's are my revolvers of choice, generally, but as I said above, I cherish my Rugers, also.

I cannot abide a bad trigger and needless to say don't shoot well with them. The few dollars that a trigger job costs are well worth it.

Dale53

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Ed Harris posted this 18 April 2008

Flashman wrote:       My son is the owner of a dissapointingly inaccurate Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt.   ...I slugged the throats and the barrel and came up with .450 throats and a .450 bore. If anyone has more insight on this topic it would be most welcome.  Mine improved noticeably when I had the cylinder line-bored to .453 throats, fitted a Belt Mountain oversized, locking base pin,  set back the barrel a thread, lapped it to remove the constriction from it having been over torqued, recut the forcing one to 11 degrees, squared the barrel face and set gap to .003 after turing up the cylinder face, shimming the hammer and adjusting the action timing.  In all about $600 of work including  Bowen sights and trigger job.

Or you could just buy a Freedom Arms for $1400 and use it out of the box. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Dale53 posted this 18 April 2008

Ed, I kind of “lucked out". My cylinder throats appear to be the same size as the bore diameter. However, mine is quite accurate (under 1.5” at 25 yards approaching 1.0") so all I did was a trigger job.

My first .45 Colt was a Vaquero 4 5/8” barrel. After shooting it for a while, I decided I needed a longer barrel. At the time I was shooting Black Powder Cartridge matches. I sold the Vaqluero and bought my present Bisley Vaquero 5½” barrel. The Vaquero was properly regulated “side to side” but needed lowering the front sight to hit point of aim at 25 yards. I carefully regulated the sights over  three range sessions. The Bisley, right out of the box, hits center at 25 yards. I never had to touch the front sight. Shooting black powder or Pyrodex I won several matches including score matches with this piece. My best day came at the BPCR matches at Friendship Indiana where I won 7 of 8 matches including a 92x100 at fifty yards. Needless to say, I am REAL happy with my Bisley Vaquero.

Mine will shoot 75 accurate shots with black before the cylinder starts binding. This is using the 250 gr. Lyman Cowboy bullet lubed with Emmert's Home Mix (50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Canola oil by melted volume. I have now modified the Emmert's and use 5% Anhydrous Lanolin and 5% Canola Oil for the “last” ingredient.

Last fall I bought a supply of .45 Cowboy Special cases and would like to try the new lighter bullets with reduced loads of black powder in these cases (same capacity as .45 Auto Rim and .45 ACP with .45 Colt rims). Instead of the 36 or so grs of black, the smaller cases use 15 grs and greatly reduce recoil. Using Swiss 3f you can get 1000 fps with 250 gr bullets in a long barreled revolver (using .45 Colt Cases). That is a bit much recoil for pure fun. However, you can reduce this somewhat by using Elephant black (no longer available) in 2f granulation in the .45 Colt Cases. Since I haven't yet tried the Cowboy Special cases with lighter bullets I have no personal experience with these loads. Should be fun, however...

Every revolver seems to be a law unto itself regarding how many shots you can shoot before cleaning. However, a BPC revolver that shoots 1.5” at 25 yards is a treasure to me.

Of course, it also shoots well with smokeless.

Dale53

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 19 April 2008

Flashman wrote:       My son is the owner of a dissapointingly inaccurate Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt.   He has tried several different store bought cast bullets, and different powder combinations, along with some jacketed loads. The best it will do is 3 inches at 25 yards. It is agravating.

Flashman,My Bisley Vaquero has .451” throats and a .451” groove diameter.  It is the poorest shooting Ruger single action I've owned, but not as bad as your sons.  I recently decided to try .452” bullets in it, instead of the .451” I used all along.  I've only been able to test it at 50' so far, but accuracy is noticeably better and leading is greatly reduced.  Ed's idea of opening the cylinder throats is the best fix, and just doing this isn't terribly expensive.  Cylinder Smith (http://www.cylindersmith.com/>http://www.cylindersmith.com/) will do it for $38.Glenn R. Latham           

 

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OKshooter posted this 06 May 2008

I just purchased the Blackhawk in a .45 Colt. This gun is beautiful. However, I have one complaint and maybe someone here has had the same problem.

Everytime, after about 4-5 shots, the base pim come unlatched. As if the power of the .45 Colt knocks it loose. It never comes out completely, just enough to keep the cylinder from rotating. I haven't even put a full box through it yet. Very frustrating.

Has anyone esle had this problem and if so, what did you do to fix it? The Base Pin Latch seems to be working fine and I can't figure out if there is  a way to tighted it.

Thanks

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 06 May 2008

OK,

The cross pin must not be seating properly in the notch in the base pin.  Remove the base pin and see how far the cross pin (retaining pin) goes, then put the base pin back in and make sure the cross pin goes as far.  If the base pin is rotated a little, it won't be secured by the cross pin.  There could be burrs on the notch in the base pin as well.  Leave the cylinder out when checking all this - it makes it easier.  Then make sure it all works properly with the cylinder installed.

Glenn

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Ed Harris posted this 08 May 2008

OKshooter wrote: I just purchased the Blackhawk in a .45 Colt. This gun is beautiful. However, I have one complaint and maybe someone here has had the same problem.

Everytime, after about 4-5 shots, the base pim come unlatched. As if the power of the .45 Colt knocks it loose. It never comes out completely, just enough to keep the cylinder from rotating. I haven't even put a full box through it yet. Very frustrating.

Has anyone esle had this problem and if so, what did you do to fix it? The Base Pin Latch seems to be working fine and I can't figure out if there is  a way to tighted it.

Thanks Remove and disassemble the base pin latch and see if it is buggered up.  If it is get a replacement from Brownells.  Also check the base pin.  Oftentimes the edges of the circumferential groove around it become burred and this causes problems.  If you are inclined to use alot of heavy loads I recommend replacing the factory base pin with the Belt Mountain locking basepin kit which you can also get from Brownells.   I did this with my Super Blackhawk and it also reduces the cylinder wobble if you have an older gun which has been punded alot.   

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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OKshooter posted this 08 May 2008

I'll give that a try. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the advice!

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bfrshooter posted this 22 August 2008

I have to question the bore dimensions. .450” does not sound right. I never remember Ruger making a bore too small. However, they made the throats too small and I see that the throats are also .450” This is a case of getting a better measurement of the groove to groove size. You need a good mike that will read to ten thousandths. No caliper is accurate enough.

That cylinder needs reamed to .4525” because I am sure the bore will actually be .452 at least. Measure the bore first again. It is best to upset the slug in the bore and if you want to find out how to do this, just ask.

Here is what you can expect from a Ruger. This is 5 shots at 50 yd's from a Creedmore position.

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bfrshooter posted this 22 August 2008

Another thing to remember about any gun, do NOT reduce the mainspring to gain a better trigger pull. In fact I use overpower Wolfe springs. You can re-bend Ruger trigger springs or unhook one leg.

The Ruger is super easy to get a good trigger of 3# or less but you need to be careful because the transfer bar is not very long and can slip under the firing pin if the trigger kicks your finger foreward. I cure this by making a new transfer bar by hand, hardening and tempering it and making it longer to cover the whole pin at full cock. I get my triggers down to 1-1/2#. Same on the BFR's.

I put the hammer on my grinder and remove half of the sear surface, then stone and polish it. I break the sharp edge with a ceramic stone. Then the sear is lubed with Action Lube. Don't change any angles.

Another thing to do is to lube the cylinder pin, front of the cylinder bushing and the ratchet with some STP oil treatment. My old SBH has been shot over 58,000 times with heavy loads and shows no wear.

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BruceV posted this 22 August 2008

bfrshooter... your results with that Ruger are simply amazing.  I had no idea that one could obtain such  accuracy from any production revolver.  Sincerely.  Bruce.

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bfrshooter posted this 22 August 2008

Yes, it is possible. Here are a few groups with different cast boolits from my 45-70 BFR at 50 yd's. There was a discussion about boolit jump to the forcing cone and that it must be short for accuracy. Not true! I have kept shots on a steel ram at 500 meters with this gun.

Notice the one group is 5 shots in 7/16", done while sighting for deer hunting.

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bfrshooter posted this 22 August 2008

Here are some typical groups at 50 yd's from my .475 BFR, shot with different boolits. I have been able to hit beer cans at 200 yd's with it from sandbags.

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riksea posted this 25 November 2008

I have done EXTENSIVE!!!!! testing with Ruger 45 blhk. There is SO MUCH TO KNOW!!! I get 1 inch groups at 50 yds and better --this is my fave handgun---first, the cases rattle around in the cylinder, cause they are way undersize--you have to know how to size them only as deep as the seated bullet ,after the cases have been fired once) so they fit reasonably tight---Linebaugh Colts are tight cylindered by Linebaugh of Wyoming--Costly. The 1-16 twist will only stabilize bullets about 350 grain best. These are all rifle bullets, so this is another problem sizing them down from approx 458 to 452. This is a poor mans 45 magnum, because it has a magnum steel cylinder same as a Ruger 44 mag. There is separate loading data for Ruger 45's and TC (Thompson Contenders----Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,,,,, You need to e-mail me at   [email protected]    Rik is the name--and see if we can get together for a phone call---You have no idea how deep this 45 Ruger stuff gets. I did blowup tests for LBT's Veral Smith with a 350 grain, and all the 296bp you can stuff in the case---Cannot tweek the cylinder--You also have a barrel constriction where the barrel screws into the frame--etc, etc, LOL!!!! Waiting for your e-mail and phone call.                  Regards---->Rik<:cool:

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[email protected] posted this 28 November 2008

I sent the cylinder off to the Cylindersmith and had the throats reamed to.4525.

In the mean time my son < the owner of the Ruger > moved out and took it with him. Kinda treacherous of him I think!  I didn't get a chance to shoot it before he left. He's kinda busy right now, gonna get married or some such nonsense. Anyway I'll try to borrow it back and shoot it some to see if the throating helped. I would like to continue experimenting with the Ruger but it's hard to do when the gun is 2 hundred miles away. Anyway until further notice thank all of you for the great feedback.

Shoot Straight  Flashman 

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Dale53 posted this 06 April 2009

I thought that I should update my Ruger Bisley Vaquero data, as listed above. Even tho' my revolver shot quite well, I decided to ream the cylinder throats. A close friend has Brownell's kit (reamer with seven removable pilots). My throats measured: four at .4505” and two at .451". This was done using the pilots as “pin gauges". After reaming the throats, I can drop a .452” sized bullet in the chamber end and it is uniformly “caught” with the nose extending from the cylinder throat. Using a pencil I can easily push it through the throats. I would call it “perfect” now.

I wanted to try it at the range, but unfortunately bad weather is moving in and it'll be a week or so before I have a chance to fire it. I am optimistic and expect great things from my newly “worked on” Ruger Bisley Vaquero.

Dale53

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Grant posted this 19 April 2009

I am just plain fortunate judging from the previous posts and discussions with friends at the range. My Blackhawk .45 Colt now gives slow-fire scores equal to my S&W M-14-3. The Blackhawk has .451” grooves and cylinder throats. It came with a burr in one cylinder throat, but Ruger removed that. I use the SAECO 230 gr. Traditional bullet cast of wheelweight metal with 7 grains of Unique for about 800 fps. Bullets are shot as cast after tumble lubing with Lee Liquid Alox. I use a Lee Factory Crimp die to remove all case flare. Grant

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