WHAT IS THE BEST SHOOTING LEVERGUN YOU OWN ?

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linoww posted this 04 February 2008

Here is a typical good session with it.As you see one of the groups has alot of vertical.It is a pretty hard gun to hold on the bags and shots do get away sometimes.It is critical to position on the bags.It can shoot good groups but if you slide forward or backwards the POI changes a bit.I have since added a "tape reference" to the forend to help and now it is alot easier to get a consistant group center. The bent over right corner of the target is hiding a 2"+ group with .22 cast bullets didnt want to get “public” <G>

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Lefty posted this 04 February 2008

George Very nice! I have nothing that will compete with this. You may have given me an idea for my next project. Jim

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linoww posted this 04 February 2008

I tell you I never thought a 99 could shoot.I am hoping others have similar results with them to share.

I wasnt trying to brag,cause its the rifle not me.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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6pt-sika posted this 04 February 2008

Nice looking rifle !

I did the Savage 99 thing a few years ago ! Had a older 99TD in 300 , an even older 99 in 30-30 and a 60's 99 that was also a 300 .

At the moment however my best shooting lever is a toss up between my Marlin 1893 in 32-40 and my even older Marlin 1895 in 38-56 .Both of these are with cast bullets .

Now for a jacketed bullet lever my new Marlin 308MX is hard to beat !!! I have yet to reload for it , but it will shoot factory into .75” at 100 yards ;)

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linoww posted this 04 February 2008

6pt-sika wrote: Nice looking rifle !

I did the Savage 99 thing a few years ago ! Had a older 99TD in 300 , an even older 99 in 30-30 and a 60's 99 that was also a 300 .

At the moment however my best shooting lever is a toss up between my Marlin 1893 in 32-40 and my even older Marlin 1895 in 38-56 .Both of these are with cast bullets .

Now for a jacketed bullet lever my new Marlin 308MX is hard to beat !!! I have yet to reload for it , but it will shoot factory into .75” at 100 yards ;)

I had bet the 308 Marlin would shoot,now I am sure of it.

How well do the 32-40 & 38-56 shoot?

I had a Marlin 36 20", barrel , 32 Spec that would shoot the Lyman 319289 into 1.5” with irons at 100 (old days with good eyes) I then read an article about accurizing them.I did all the stuff and then it never shot better than 2.5".What did I think I was going to get with the accurizing 1/2” groups!!!! I should have been happy as it was. If it aint broke.......(you know the rest)

Thats why I never tried hard with a lever ever since. Until this one came along I just used them to plink and 2-1/2” groups were good enough in most 30-30's

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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argie1891 posted this 05 February 2008

I have a Marlin cowboy in 38-55 that will shoot into an inch on a good day with soft bullets and 9 gr.of unique. i cant remember the bullet number, but it is the heavier gas check bullet lyman makes. for a hunting load i used 25 rg. of rl7 for right at 1650 fps almost as accurate as the unique load. i shot a doe with it 3 yrs ago and it never took a step after i hit it.

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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Ed Harris posted this 05 February 2008

I used to have a Savage 1899 originally a .303, which was rebarreled to .30-30 with a heavy barrel of configuration VERY similar to yours, and it shot very well. I never scoped mine, but using the Lyman tang peep sight and bead front with good handloads it would shoot 3-4” five-shot groups at 200 yards with my heavy hunting loads with 190-gr. LBT flatnose and 36 grs. of WW760. I killed a couple deer and a moose with it. When I left Ruger I gave it to one of the fellows in the shop who had done the barrel work for me.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Russ posted this 05 February 2008

Marlin 336A , 1949 with same year Weaver k2.5 in beuhler mounts. Will shoot 3 shots touching in the hands of a good rifleman. (not me) 32 Winchester Special.

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linoww posted this 05 February 2008

Ed wrote:

I used to have a Savage 1899 originally a .303, which was rebarreled to .30-30 with a heavy barrel of configuration VERY similar to yours, and it shot very well.

Do you think the 99 can always shoot with a heavy barrel?? Of course my chamber is not typical 30-30 and actually has a throat. The fired neck expansion is only a couple of thou'.It was set up for jacketed 168 bullets and a .310 cast slug will not enter the chamber.I thought about turning necks and trying larger bullets,but it is doing so well I am afraid to change anything.

I would like to build another,but thought maybe mine shooting so well was a fluke!I want to build up a '99 varmint gun in 219 ZIpper,but don't know if I could get the magazine to work properly.

Geroge

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 05 February 2008

Russ wrote: Marlin 336A , 1949 with same year Weaver k2.5 in beuhler mounts. Will shoot 3 shots touching in the hands of a good rifleman. (not me) 32 Winchester Special.

If you see my post above i once had good luck with the .32 Special as well.I am looking for another these days,but in full rifle form for an offhand gun.What load do you shoot in your 336-A ?

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Ed Harris posted this 05 February 2008

linoww wrote: Ed wrote:

I used to have a Savage 1899 originally a .303, which was rebarreled to .30-30 with a heavy barrel of configuration VERY similar to yours, and it shot very well.

Do you think the 99 can always shoot with a heavy barrel?? Of course my chamber is not typical 30-30 and actually has a throat. The fired neck expansion is only a couple of thou'.It was set up for jacketed 168 bullets and a .310 cast slug will not enter the chamber.I thought about turning necks and trying larger bullets,but it is doing so well I am afraid to change anything.

I would like to build another,but thought maybe mine shooting so well was a fluke!I want to build up a '99 varmint gun in 219 ZIpper,but don't know if I could get the magazine to work properly.

Geroge Mine was throated similarly to the .300 Savage. I think any 99 with a stiff barrel and proper chamber would do well. I fully glass bedded the fore-end and had the wood attached to the barrel with a screw, whereas the tenon was relieved so that it didn't contact the receiver.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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linoww posted this 05 February 2008

Ed Harris wrote: I fully glass bedded the fore-end and had the wood attached to the barrel with a screw, whereas the tenon was relieved so that it didn't contact the receiver.

Thats how mine is set up.Maybe i will try to build another then. It sounds like they are more accurate than given credit when customized.I cant see why they would'nt shoot as well as the respected Ballards or Low Walls,as they would be about as ridgid.I am going to shoot it as a Heavy Class gun in Spokane next month for fun.I will lose with style at least :-)

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Russ posted this 05 February 2008

Linoww: I use LBT#32.150.FN over 15 gr. of SR4759. The rifle is as it left the factory mechanically. IT was very dirty with a fine film of rust in and out. I polished the chamber and scrubbed the bore. Had the scope rebuilt in El Paso.

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linoww posted this 05 February 2008

Russ wrote: Linoww: I use LBT#32.150.FN over 15 gr. of SR4759. The rifle is as it left the factory mechanically. IT was very dirty with a fine film of rust in and out. I polished the chamber and scrubbed the bore. Had the scope rebuilt in El Paso.

I'd like to see a picture of the bullet.I am looking for a 32 rifle mold.

Is it GC or PB?

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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6pt-sika posted this 05 February 2008

linoww wrote: I had bet the 308 Marlin would shoot,now I am sure of it.

I have the 308 Express in both the blued and the syainless versions .

I got the XLR in the summer when it was hot and it was shooting about 1.5” out of the box , however when it got cooler and the barrel got shall we say worn in a bit it closed up !

But I got the blued version in early december and took it to the range , sighted in and the first 3 shot group at 100 yards with a 8x scope was .75” :dude:

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6pt-sika posted this 05 February 2008

linoww wrote: How well do the 32-40 & 38-56 shoot?

Bear in mind I have never gotten tang sights for either of these and have been using just the reguler old buckhorn sights .

In the 32-40 I use the RCBS 32-170GC mould and cast with straight WW's pushed by 15 grains of XMP5744 . On a good day I can keep 5 inside 2” at 75 yards . I think with a tang sight I could do better .

In the 38-56 I use the Lyman 375449 mould and push it with 20 grains of XMP5744 and it to will keep 5 of them tight at 75 yards .

To some this may not sound all that hot , but with 100+year old rifles open sights and unculled cast bullets I think it is quite adequate !

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Russ posted this 05 February 2008

Linoww: I don't know the age of the bullet, but it is plain base. I buy them from Western Bullet Co. in Missoula Montana. I couldn't find a mold I liked so I was using Jon Vivas' bullets. He hand casts a wide variety of bullets of very high quality. I now have a mold to play with. I also use this LBT load in a Win. 94 16” Wrangler. Check Western bullet site for pics.

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linoww posted this 06 February 2008

6pt-sika wrote: Bear in mind I have never gotten tang sights for either of these and have been using just the reguler old buckhorn sights .

In the 32-40 I use the RCBS 32-170GC mould and cast with straight WW's pushed by 15 grains of XMP5744 . On a good day I can keep 5 inside 2” at 75 yards . I think with a tang sight I could do better .

In the 38-56 I use the Lyman 375449 mould and push it with 20 grains of XMP5744 and it to will keep 5 of them tight at 75 yards .

To some this may not sound all that hot , but with 100+year old rifles open sights and unculled cast bullets I think it is quite adequate !

Thats good shooting in my book!

I doubt my Savage would do any better with irons.I dont bother to "weight cull” my bullets.I look at them while casting an maybe once before sizing.I think if you pay attention to your casting cycles and visually sort during that time all is well for all but serious BR shooting.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 06 February 2008

Russ wrote: Linoww: I don't know the age of the bullet, but it is plain base. I buy them from Western Bullet Co. in Missoula Montana. I couldn't find a mold I liked so I was using Jon Vivas' bullets. He hand casts a wide variety of bullets of very high quality. I now have a mold to play with. I also use this LBT load in a Win. 94 16” Wrangler. Check Western bullet site for pics.

I'll look them up.

Thanks George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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devin1955 posted this 06 February 2008

That's a very fine looking rifle. I really like the looks of heavy barrels like that.

I own a grand total of 2 lever guns. A Marlin 39A .22rf and a Marlin model 444. How's that for opposite ends of the spectrum? Both were purchased about 1970. I last fired the 444 when I was a teenager (I'm 53 now) and the scope put a nice bloody ring above my right eye. I keep thinking I ought to get back up on that horse one of these days. Ya think??? Maybe this should be my first “cast bullet load for a rifle” project. -Don

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argie1891 posted this 07 February 2008

the 444 marlin does have quite a jolt when fired with factory rounds. I would think that a nice light load about 1200 fps would put you back on the right track. I dont think a paper target can tell the difference between 2000fps and 1200. go for it. argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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44 Flattop posted this 01 April 2008

I'd have to say my .348 is my most accurate cast shooting levergun. Using a couple different moulds I get anywhere from about 1 MOA to 1.5 MOA. I could probably do better but that is loaded pretty heavy for elk and have never shot a light load in it. I have to many other leverguns for that sort of thing!

44

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Ranch Dog posted this 02 April 2008

devin1955 wrote: I last fired the 444 when I was a teenager (I'm 53 now) and the scope put a nice bloody ring above my right eye. I keep thinking I ought to get back up on that horse one of these days. Ya think??? Maybe this should be my first “cast bullet load for a rifle” project. Don,

My 1972 444T is my favorite cast bullet rifle! Over the years I have taken an incredible amount of big game with this rifle. I know its a “deep woods” rifle but I have found it to be outstanding out in the open country of both South and West Texas.

The first year I showed up with it in my desert mule deer camp, everyone laughed. Not anymore. All the guys now know what that bullet sounds like out in that open desert when it whacks a big mullie!

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linoww posted this 03 April 2008

44 Flattop wrote: I'd have to say my .348 is my most accurate cast shooting levergun. Using a couple different moulds I get anywhere from about 1 MOA to 1.5 MOA. I could probably do better but that is loaded pretty heavy for elk and have never shot a light load in it. I have to many other leverguns for that sort of thing!

44

Irons,scoped?? At what ranges?

I took my Target Savage 99 to a CBA match in Spokane this weekend.It wasn't doing well at all in the cold weather and averaged 1.6” for the 4- 5 shot group targets.I shot a 181 for score.All at 100 for this match.

The weather was in the low 30's and my shots would slowly raise as the barrel warmed up for each shot.It would start 3” low and then raise to the “known ?” point of impact.It was a bear trying to figure out when it was really done raising up.With some wind mixed in to deal with it caused me havoc.The gun had shown tendencies like this before in the winter,but I never had to pay much attention to it because i generally shot 4 or 5 consecutive groups with the barrel all warmed up.I couldn't do that at the match.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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44 Flattop posted this 03 April 2008

linoww wrote: 44 Flattop wrote: I'd have to say my .348 is my most accurate cast shooting levergun. Using a couple different moulds I get anywhere from about 1 MOA to 1.5 MOA. I could probably do better but that is loaded pretty heavy for elk and have never shot a light load in it. I have to many other leverguns for that sort of thing!

44

Irons,scoped?? At what ranges? This is a 1936 original Winchester model 71 with a bolt mounted peep sight, George:D !! No scope on this beautiful little hummer! Most of my shooting is at 100 yards, its tough to find a place to shoot much farther than that here in Western Washington. Most of the clearcut loggings that I usually shoot in are getting locked up due to people dumping garbage:X There is a gravel pit just a mile up the road from my house that I shoot in all the time that only gives me a max range of about 110 yards.

I HAVE got a bit of 200 yard shooting with it on paper (196 yards actually) and have had groups as small as 2 3/4". Other than killing a few rocks across a canyon a few times, I don't believe I have ever shot this rifle over 200 yards!

44

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linoww posted this 03 April 2008

44 Flattop wrote:

George:D !! No scope on this beautiful little hummer! Most of my shooting is at 100 yards, Most of the clearcut loggings that I usually shoot in are getting locked up due to people dumping garbage:X There is a gravel pit just a mile up the road from my house that I shoot in all the time that only gives me a max range of about 110 yards.

I HAVE got a bit of 200 yard shooting with it on paper (196 yards actually) and have had groups as small as 2 3/4". Other than killing a few rocks across a canyon a few times, I don't believe I have ever shot this rifle over 200 yards!

44

This is a 1936 original Winchester model 71 with a bolt mounted peep sight.

Sounds like a keeper !

its tough to find a place to shoot much farther than that here in Western Washington.

I lived in Camas for a long while until I moved out here to Eastern Washington.I do enjoy the open country out here and the ability to shoot longer ranges.I remember trying to find a spot to zero my Swift for an Eastern varmint hunt and could barely get 100 yd opening out in your area.

There are CBA Matches at Clark Rifles in Vancouver,you should bring your 71 out and shoot .Bill will hang the military targets and you will be able to see them well enough to shoot good groups.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Notlwonk posted this 04 April 2008

Ed Harris wrote: I used to have a Savage 1899 originally a .303, which was rebarreled to .30-30 with a heavy barrel of configuration VERY similar to yours, and it shot very well. Just curious, a friend has one in 303 with a rusted out bore (it spent too much time in a hollow tree! ) that I've considered buying it and putting a 30-30 tube on it. Some where I heard that the magazine spool is very caliber specific, is that true?

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Ed Harris posted this 07 April 2008

The .303 Savage spool “should” handle .30-30s without a problem.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Notlwonk posted this 07 April 2008

Thank you, Now do I really want to do this???

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linoww posted this 07 April 2008

Notlwonk wrote: Thank you, Now do I really want to do this???

Just use a reamer with a good throat or throat it separately.The 30-30 has nothing but a 15 deg angle off the end of the case,not always the best for accuracy.Mine it throated with a 1.5 per side angle after a short .309 “leade” in front of the chamber(best i could measure)and works well.Somewhere on the forum Ed Harris posted a good chamber print,I just don't remember the location.maybe he'll read this and re-post it to this thread??

I sure like my 99 “Semi-Target” you'll be happy with yours.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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lmcollins posted this 08 April 2008

RE: 30-30 reamer print, and SAMMI throating.

Clymer Tool the reamer people in Michigan have there prints on-line on their web site. You can check that to see what a SAMI throat looks like. Clymers also make throating reamers. Their standard throating reamers have a 5 degree included angle throat. They also probably have a 3 degree included angle reamer on the shelf in .30 cal rifle.

Dave Manson of Manson Precision also makes chambering and throating reamers. I know that he makes a 3 degree included angle throater, as well as SAMMI standard chambering reamers. If I wanted to chamber for cast bullets I'd chamber with a standard SAMMI reamer, and give myself a custom throat with a 3 degree throater. I like Dave's throaters best because he makes cylindrical section .001 over groove diameter. Clymer does theirs .002 thousands over groove diameter.

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linoww posted this 08 April 2008

I like Dave's throaters best because he makes cylindrical section .001 over groove diameter.

My rifles are throated with a .3095 cyl.section then 1.5 per side and all work well.I dont remember who made the throater my 'smith uses,but its similar to you Manson style.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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specops posted this 13 April 2008

It would have to be my Savage 99 in 308. Picked it up several years ago at a estate sale. There were 2 of them. My straight stock and a pistol grip Monte Carlo stocked one with a scope. I'm not sure mine had ever been fired as there were no dings on the stock or metal. It has the brass rotator in the magazine. Anyway, I bought 2 250 round clips of Israilie machine gun ammo at a gun show and danged if the stuff didn't shoot .5 to 1". I had mounted a 1.5-5 power scope on it (these trifocal eyes don't do very well anymore with open sights) and was just planning to shoot the stuff up to get the brass. The light barrel does tend to heat up rather quickly so long range sessions are not its forte. I have 10,000 165gr. PB FP cast bullets I bought at an auction that will stay around 1.5” with 16 grs of 2400 in the afore mentioned cases. Great on bunnies, squirrels and coyotes. Haven't tried it on anything bigger yet. Wish I could get my 1886 Winchester in 45/70 to shoot that good.

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3100Loren posted this 13 April 2008

Hello. This is the first time I have joined in on a discussion as I have just joined. Here it goes, I am lucky enough to still have the first rifle I ever owned a Marlin 336 I bought while in high school. Seems like I had to put it on lay-away at Walgreen's because I could not afford the $115 price tag (complete with a 4X scope). Anyway I have shot a lot of 125 gr jacketed hollow points through it. I am looking forward to trying this cast bullet stuff. I'll let you know how it goes

P.S I always wanted a 99, but as they say if wishes were fishs, we would all be over limit.

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linoww posted this 21 April 2008

You will enjoy cast in your 30-30.I loaded for a friends 30-30 Microgoove Marlin about 10 years ago with the Lyman 31141 and 13.0 of 2400.The bullets were linotype and they seemed to shoot about 2-1/2” at 100 if I remember correctly.I haven't played with Microgoove and cast as much as others in the Marlins,but I am sure someone here could help you out with advice.

Good luck.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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3100Loren posted this 21 April 2008

Thanks, I know I will enjoy working up a load for the .30-30, It shoots jacketed bullets real well but I have heard that the Microgroove barrels do not shoot cast to well, but that is the reason I joined this group, I want to learn. One of my daughters has a Savage bolt action 30-30 her Grandfather gave to her along with some cast bullets with Pyrodex loads, it's a real hoot to shoot, and my other daughter has 100 year old Model 94. Grandpa taught them well!

What are your thoughts on using a paper patch bullet with Microgroove barrel? Might be nuts, but it might be fun to try. On the serious side, do you think a gas check would improve performance? Look forward to hearing from you.

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Ed Harris posted this 22 April 2008

3100Loren wrote: Thanks, I know I will enjoy working up a load for the .30-30, It shoots jacketed bullets real well but I have heard that the Microgroove barrels do not shoot cast to well, but that is the reason I joined this group, I want to learn. The Microgroove barrels require a long bodied bullet with an enlarged bore riding forepart of diameter sufficient to receive some guidance from the rifling. If the bore riding nose of the bullet will enter the muzzle without resistance, it is too small. You probably want a bullet with .310-.311 bands and .303-.304 nose, about 160-175 grs. with a .18-.20 meplat Best thing is to do a chamber cast and have Veral Smith at LBT make a custom mould to fit your gun, expecially if you plan to hunt with it. For a hunting load I'd use 1:20 alloy and about 21 grs. of RL-7.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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3100Loren posted this 23 April 2008

Thanks Ed,

Sounds like you have more than a little experience here. I will give this a try, and let you know how it goes.>

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seabreeze133 posted this 27 April 2008

I have a 1972 vintage Marlin 444S that has put 5 shot in .375, from a bench at 50 yds w/scope. 290 BTB, 53 gr H335, 432 boolit in a 4295 bore. I did not slug the bore before shooting the H335 load an could not understand why it pounded me. Dummy.

Next step is same set up w/430 BTB. And a 429244 at 430 w/52 gr H335. But w/an ancient Williams receiver sight and Lyman 17.

:o)

Don

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DaveC posted this 31 May 2008

Russ wrote: Linoww: I don't know the age of the bullet, but it is plain base. I buy them from Western Bullet Co. in Missoula Montana. I couldn't find a mold I liked so I was using Jon Vivas' bullets. He hand casts a wide variety of bullets of very high quality. I now have a mold to play with. I also use this LBT load in a Win. 94 16” Wrangler. Check Western bullet site for pics.

In Sept, 2007 I ordered bullets (payed by PayPay) from Western Bullet but can't get them by e-mail or phone, are they still in business??

Thanks

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mtn_runner posted this 04 October 2010

Flattop,

I also shoot a model 71, newer than yours, it is a short tang version made in the '50's near the end of the run for this great rifle.

I cast three bullets for this - a NEI 250 gr (my favorite) an NEI 225 grain and an RCBS 200. All loaded for hunting rather than paper punching.

Most load data I can find has small charges of pistol or fast burning rifle powders. Not my preference as with the big case capacity a slower burning (lower pressure buildup) powder seems more appropriate.

My best load at present is with surplus 7383 powder behind the NEI 250 grainer. At 51 grains, the case is full to the base of the bullet, but not compressed, and the velocity is at +/-2,000 fps.

This note is to ask if you have any preferred loads that you would not mind sharing, and to ask if you think my aversion to the faster burning powders in the 348 is unfounded.

Regards .. Mtn_runner

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Dale53 posted this 04 October 2010

My best shooting Marlin is an 1895 (modern, but early version with Ballard Rifling) shoots 1.5” groups at 100 yards with the Lee 340 gr bullet ahead of a suitable charge of RL-7.

My Marlin 25/20 will shoot inside the ten ring on a small bore target at 50 yards all day long (low “X” count, tho') with a compressed load of RL-7 behind a 257420 gas check bullet of linotype. 4.0 grs of Unique makes a superb squirrel load behind the same bullet.

FWIW Dale53

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John Boy posted this 04 October 2010

George, change the bullet and loading recipe to see if your rifle shoots equal or better groups. I have several rifles that shoot very good groups and am a firm believer, find the right recipe a rifle likes and you will have excellent groups.

Examples, all with globe foresight and vernier rears and different rifles:

25-20 http://www.shilohrifle.coms/viewtopic.php?t=13911&highlight=375166>http://www.shilohrifle.coms/viewtopic.php?t=13911&highlight=375166