73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
.22 Rimfire Handguns
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- Last Post 18 January 2011
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I got a 22/45 which I think fits into the category you are speaking of Ed.
I agree the trigger leaves something to be desired.
I get a little better than 1.5 at 25 yards, never shoot it much at 50 as I shake too darn much.
I do have an old H&R model 6 that shoots great! The sights lack a little, but it is sure fun to shoot. Picked it up in Phoenix for 50 bucks in 2000.
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Hi Ed... hey ya gotta try CCI Green Tag, it will shoot about 7 or 8 out of 10 just like the good stuff ... of course, the other 2 are flyers .... ............. but, hey, like Jeff says ... these are lead !! Flyers are always ruining my groups !!
Anyway, ya got me all jazzed up to finally put another barrel on my standard 1960 vintage Ruger ..... yep, a 47 year old autoloder with a few cases of ammo thru it ... only broke a spring retainer blade (? ) was cheap to replace. Still plink with it almost every week.
Back when I wuz younger I used to racoon hunt at night with dogs ... my handy Ruger with a 1.5 weaver scope was just fantastic for head shots in tall trees to bring down a racoon that wasn't going to tear up our dogs. That round receiver is so so easy to mount weaver bases on.
Question: how do I get the barrel off ? I do varios rifles all the time and know the trick about grooving right at the front of the receiver ring .... is this necessary on the pistol .... or is there some demon secret to it ??
thanks for any input .. ken campbell, deltawerkes
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I never found Green Tag shot any better than CCI's ordinary standard velocity, which is already pretty good. I figure that if you can't tell the difference, don't spend the money. I just bought 10,000 rounds of Eley Sport.
Don't let the “Made in Mexico” label on the Eley Sport scare you. It's actually great ammo, which averages an inch for five consecutive 10-shot groups at 25 yards fired off sandbags from my friend's Ruger Mk.III 5-1/2” bull barrel with 4X Leupold. As good as Eley Standard (the UK stuff) and its cheaper than CCI Blazer!
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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I have been shooting a Ruger MK II stainless steel pistol at 50 and 100 yards for a couple of years now.
I can't see without a scope, and have Simmons 4X, NC Star 4X and 2-7X scopes. I found on all of these that unscrewing the front thing gives access to the turn-the-lens apparatus, and I can completely eliminate parallax.
I can't shoot for beans just holding the gun, so I invented the astonishingly clever MIRACLEREST, composed of space age plastics. From the plumbing section of the hardware store.
Even with the MIRACLEREST (no false modesty from me!) I can't get scrunched down far enough to see through the scope, so I've had my brother the cabinet maker construct several models of the ALTITUDE ENHANCING DEVICE (box) to get everything up to where I can shoot, see, hit the target and not moan in pain.
This setup allows me to shoot five ten shot groups and average under 2” at 50 yards and under 4” at 100 yards. So far the 50 yard average is 1.912", minimum group size 1", 100 yard average is 3.659", minimum group size is 2.6".
Remington Target and CCI Standard Velocity work best, there's no improvement with Eley Pistol Match, RWS Match, Federal Lightning, CCI Green Tag(never worked well in any 22 I've owned), or PMC Match. So far.
I frequently but not always get the first shot out of the group. This can be fixed by putting the ctg in the chamber then hand closing the bolt then putting in a magazine of 9. But not always.
I think that somewhere between a lot and most of the group size is in my holding, loose or tight, where the gun sits on the wedge, etc.
A match where the low cost ammo was the standard, and higher cost ammo was handicapped by increasing group size (your ammo cost twice what the low cost ammo cost, we'll mark your groups as twice as big as they measure) would set the Eley folks back a bit and take $$ out of the equation.
I'm still working on it and hope to shoot better-the NCStar 2-7 does NOT shoot best at 7X, the target = aiming point and the scope need matching, or the target needs improvement or ??? A 6” bull at 100 yards is as easy or easier to shoot at as a 3/4” dot or 1” dot or ??
joe brennan
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I confess. I was web surfing the Cabelas Gun Library and the devil made me do it....
I found a Colt Cobra .22 LR with 3” barrel. I paid VERY dearly for it.
To me it is worth every penny. Perfect for Plinker's Hollow!
Go ahead and drool!
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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See what I mean... We don't stand a chance to grab up on the good stuff, Ed has it all!
Hey Ed, wanna adopt some more kids??
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Reminds me of a personal ad I saw in a NH newspaper:;
WANTED: Woman to keep house, chop wood, tend stove, clean fish, cook game. Axe, chainsaw, broom, mop, kitchen knives, .22 rifle and fishing pole provided. Applicant must furnish own pickup, boat and motor. Please send picture of boat and motor c/o P.O. Box 12345, Sunapee Trader, Newport, NH 03373
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Ed; I have to say that I tend to agree with most of what you say.
I am active in a local club with 650 members.
I DO recommend that new pistol shooters consider a Ruger in one of the many variations. If they are going to use optical sights, then I suggest that they get the polymer frames for the lighter weight. I prefer Red Dots for my aging eyes.
I also tell them to not even unpack the new Ruger, but take it to a very good local pistol smith (we are very fortunate in this regard) and have him do a complete trigger job. He charges about $35.00 plus parts and you end up with a VERY competitive pistol for little money.
My .22 pistol is a Smith 41 heavy barrel with a Leupold scope. I will probably swap the scope for a lighter weight and easier to see Red Dot, shortly. I have an extra light weight barrel for the Smith for field use. However, I too, tend to carry .32's in the field.
Dale53
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Dale53,
Which .32s and loads do you like?
Just curious
8-)
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Ed; I load and shoot “magnum” loads on occasion but I must confess that I mostly shoot .32 S&W L cases with 2.8 Win 231 behind a Keith Style 100 gr bullet (Lee six cavity Group Buy mould). The bullets come from the mould at .314” with my alloy, and I size at .313". I am now lubing with Carnauba Red, White Label: http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html
I have a Smith 631 in .32 magnum, a 16-4 Smith 6” in .32 magnum, and a Ruger SP101 4” in .32 magnum. However, as stated above, I mostly shoot .32 S&W Longs. I can hardly think of a better edible small game round out there (you can make a good argument that there are others as “good” as the .32 S&W L with a proper bullet loaded to a decent velocity but there are NONE better for the woods rambler.
If a feller or gal prefers the .38 Special, they won't get a complaint from me, but I'll just smile a little and walk on down the road...
Dale53
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My one and only .22 handgun is a S&W M-18 4” revolver. I traded for one around July of 1985 and foolishly let it slip away. I finally found a equally nice one in 2003. With decent ammo it will keep two cylinder loads under 2 inches at 25 yds. One day maybe I'll find someone with a Ransom rest so that I can really see what it will do. One day I will buy a Ruger Mk. II and put a good red dot sight on it. I always did like that little 4” model with the tapered barrel as it was the first .22 handgun I ever owned.
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Ed, I would like to hear more about your experiences with that Beretta 70 with the 6inch barrel. I recently sold of a 70s with the short barrel. It was a fine gun and really fit my hand. I had a lot of fun with it but eventually just wasn't satisfied with the 3.5” groups at 25 yards. i was surprised that it shot that well as that seems pretty good for such a small pistol, but eventually i just wanted more.
the smith &wesson 317 i bought several years ago was a similar story. 3-4” groups were disappointing and i sold it. my mod. 34 will do about 1.5” and i was hoping for something close from that 317.
i just bought an aluminum pac-lite barrel/receiver for my ruger mkII. have not shot it yet but they get great reviews accuracy-wise. on a steel frame i am guesstimating the total package weighs about 20 ounces unloaded; and that is with a 6” barrel. i have high hopes as it feels wonderful; and i still have the original 5.5” bull barrel too although it has been shot so much that the ejector is working loose and sometimes causes trouble. my mod. 34 may soon be given to a friend who likes it, but i will be quite happy with my 2-barreled ruger.
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Ed, I would like to hear more about your experiences with that Beretta 70 with the 6inch barrel. I recently sold off a 70s with the short barrel... I had a lot of fun with it but eventually just wasn't satisfied with the 3.5” groups at 25 yards.
The 6” barrel I had didn't group any better for me than the 3.5” but was easier to shoot well due to with its longer sight radius. I sold it to a friend who made a generous offer so that he could have it modified for a “can."
I found the Beretta .22 pistols to be very ammo specific. They work best with European ammo having large bullet diameters of .224"+ in a subsonic loading having a GREASED bullet. Eley Standard, Eley Subsonic HP, RWS Target Pistol or RWS Subsonic HP averaged 2” or under for five 8-shot groups handheld off sandbags. Plated US high velocity regardless of brand was over 3 inches. Dry waxed US ammo such as CCI Blaser, CCI Subsonic HP and Winchester T22 were 2-1/2 to 2-3/4". My batch of Green Tag did OK at 2". Best cheap ammo is Eley Sport from Mexico, which also does 2".
My friend Dennis Carlini also has a 3.5” Beretta, his an M71, and it does 2 inches with (Mexican) Eley Sport, whereas his Colt Type II Woodsman 6” will do an inch with it.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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My dad was pretty involved with bullseye shooting back in the 70's. He had a late 1960's vintage Browning Challenger that was unbelievably accurate.
The club he shot at was close to Ft. Benning and a lot of those guys came to shoot. He could about hold his own with the .38 and .45 but nobody could touch him with the .22.
His might have been an exception, it's the only one I'm really familiar with.
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Ed, thanks for the info on the ammo for the Beretta. i sold it to a friend so i will pass along your ammo suggestions to him.
i shot my pac-lite ruger today. very nice! from a rest at 25 yards with iron sights, it put everything i tried into about 1.5” with 10 shot groups. that is about as good as i can do with iron sights anyway. it didn't seem ammo sensitive at all. stingers, power points, subsonic aguila, and even bulk pack federal all shot about the same. i didn't try any match-type ammo as i mainly want a plinker, offhand practice, and small game gun. i am thrilled. it looks good, works 100%, feels good in the hand, has great accuracy, is super light and still holds pretty steady offhand. highly recommended!
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Ed; I have been MOST neglectful. I neglected to mention how much I enjoyed your VERY detailed report. To say that “I agree with most of what you said” did not begin to state how much I appreciate that kind of report.
Thank you and Well, done!
Dale53
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My dad was pretty involved with bullseye shooting back in the 70's. He had a late 1960's vintage Browning Challenger that was unbelievably accurate.
The club he shot at was close to Ft. Benning and a lot of those guys came to shoot. He could about hold his own with the .38 and .45 but nobody could touch him with the .22.
His might have been an exception, it's the only one I'm really familiar with.
My wife's nephew has one of those Challengers. I'm no great shakes as a pistol shot, but when I shot his, I put ten shots in a group slightly bigger than a dime.:shock:
I tried to buy that gun off him but he wouldn't sell at any price. :( I think they probably were all great shooters due to the very fine trigger they had, if his was any example.
Paul B.
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Found another gem I couldn't leave alone. I was scrounging thru old posts looking for .22 handgun info and ran across this. Recently I was able to get a 1960 Ruger MK I into California only to be told by my ffl he couldn't release it to me because it wasn't on the DOJ 'approved list'. After 6-7 months I succeeded in proving that it was exempt due to it's age(over 50) and that it's no longer made. After a range test I started researching triggers. Now after reading Ed's post I'm concerned a trigger job will affect reliability. Is this problem common or have some of you found the aftermarket parts ok in the reliability department. If I go for it I'll take it to a pro for the work.
This post also got me thinking about .22s I should have kept, like a mint H&R 999 and a Taurus Model ?. I don't remember the model number, but it was a 4” barrel stainless steel 9 shot, like a j frame Kit Gun. That little sucker shot good and would take speed loaders too. Then there's that '64 Skylark ragtop cheerleader hauler....
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Aftermarket Ruger trigger parts will work OK, but best installed by someone who has done alot of them, as individual guns can be tricky, and problems hard to diagnose if unfamiliar. Best to leave the springs alone unless you intend to tune and adjust the gun to use only one ammo.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Latest new toy is a High Standard Model B US marked. Found in a local shop for $300. Fellow thought it was a “parts” gun because barrel was Parkerized and the rest blued, but barrel says U.S. Property on it, so I figure if not original it is an arsenal rebarrel. Shoots good, don't care.
Second pistol below is a civilian Model B with 6-3/4 inch barrel. Shoots like a rifle. Used to be the late Col. Gregory Kalnitzky's survival ruck gun he carried in his Air America days.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Nifty little guns, Ed. Never had one of the early ones, where they as well made as the later models? Safe to shoot with HS ammo? Ric
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All the WWII-era High Standards are fine with high velocity ammo.
It is true that you need to be careful with some of early Colts which did not have a hardened mainspring housing.
I think the workmanship of the older High Standards is right up with Colt. Both the above guns made in 1942 according to serial number records.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Ed, That US marked HS is a dandy, for sure.
I've always been a fan of the Colt Woodsman but never had the funds to scoff up a target model. I do have a 4” Woodsman and shoot it from time to time. I always worry that some irreplaceable part is going to break, so it only gets used about once a year.
I picked up a nice Browning Buckmark a few years back. I was surprised to find it almost identical to the Woodsman, but with better sights.
I bought a Ruger MKII 6-7/8 target model the first year they came out. I could never hit much with it although others found it very accurate. I thought about dumping it last year but then found a set of the Volquartsen target grips on sale. The target grips made all the difference in the world. I can't hardly miss with it now.:D
My favorite revolver is a Ruger Single-Six Hunter that my wife bought for me a couple of years ago. It will shoot into an inch at twenty five yards from a rest and with decent ammo. It seems to like the Federal Auto Match better than most others. The Federal 550 rd bulk pack with the 36 gr copper washed bullet do nearly as well and I use them a lot for plinking. Since the top rib of the barrel is cut for Ruger rings, I mounted a Burris Fastfire red dot sight. The factory sights are a tiny gold bead front with a hog waller V notch rear and my eyes just aren't up to that sort of foolishness any more. It is strange the Ruger makes the gun to use easily replaceable front sight blades but offers absolutely no replacement blades.:X
I would like to get a 4” K frame S&W in .22 but I'm not able to justify most of a thousand dollars for the name.
I've thought more than once about getting a stainless Bearcat and having David Clements add a set of his adjustable sights. Even with the sights and a trigger job it would be less expensive than a S&W.
Jack
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I had a Taurus about 25 yrs. ago that was a surprising little thing. Stainless steel, like a J frame, 9 shot. I think it had a 3” barrel if I remember right, adjustable sights. Price was good. Don't know why I still don't have it. A good .22 is a joy to have. My current favorite is a Ruger MK 1 Target. Shoots better than I can. Had a 999 Sporstman that was a shooter too, my brother got it.
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See, Ed just keeps making me do things!
Here's my knock-off: It's a only-allowed-for-a brief-interval Norinco imported by NA Arms of NJ (Go figure.) that shoots better than every other pistol I do or have ever owned.
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