time of flight ..cast bullets

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  • Last Post 26 February 2016
Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 February 2016

a few days ago we were discussing flight deviation caused by defective bullets being kicked ” sideways ” at the muzzle .

duh !  i finally remembered that my lyman number 45 handbook boringly gives times of flight for most of it's cast bullets .

a lyman 311284  at mv = 1800 takes 0.185 sec to arrive at a 100 yard target .

since it is defective let us round that to 0.2 secs...

so a bullet that from defects is kicked sideways 1 inch at 100 yards is migrating 5 inches per second .

so....most of our deer rifles are molesting our bullets to cause a migration of 5 to 10 inches per second ....of course in addition ( sometimes subtraction )  to all the other naughty things that happens to our shots .

simplified let's call it one foot/sec . for our deer rifles .


sometimes i stand a hundred yards away and look at a paper target ... you know what ???  1.5 inches maybe isn't much of an error after all .  could it be that are doing pretty well .... ?

ken

100 yds = 0.185 secs 200 yds = 0.38 secs.  400 yds.= 0.86 secs.  hmmm ... not linear but close .

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frnkeore posted this 25 February 2016

Ken, I do think your on to something. I ran the 311284 on the JMB trajectory program, using Lymans .332 BC. My 100 yards results are different than your but, 200 & 400 are the same.

Just adding a slight amount for wind drift, brings target results in to line with the ToF, at least for record groups at CBA velocitys. 

Frank

100 = .177

200 = .378 = 2.136x

300 = .605 = 3.418x

400 = .859 = 4.853x

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Larry Gibson posted this 25 February 2016

Ken   so a bullet that from defects is kicked sideways 1 inch at 100 yards is migrating 5 inches per second .

Should we assume the bullet is always “kicked sideways"?  If so, right or left?  Up or down?  Or in any direction?   Also, using the Applied Ballistics program, a 311299 (BC of .377) at 1500 fps from a 10” RH twist has a bullet drift to the right of .22 at 100 yards, .87 at 200 yards, 2.01 at 300 yards and 3.70” at 400 yards.  If the bullet is “kicked to the side (left)” because of a defect the same amount as the drift to the right does it negate the drift?   LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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frnkeore posted this 25 February 2016

I ran the same program on the PB bullets that we shoot in CBA, ISSA & ASSRA, BC's run from .300 to .440 so, I used a common spitzer BC of .390

The results:

ToF .39 BC @ 1470 fps

100 = .215

200 = .453 = 2.107x

300 = .714 = 3.321x

400 = .995 = 4.628x

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 February 2016

lmg ... i mentioned the bullet ” kick ” can subtract from group size ... for instance send it upwind ... ( g ) .

and i also put ” sideways ” in quotes ... hey, why be obvious ... i do think ” any which way ” has a ring to it ... ( g ) ...

we rather have a stew of factors to muse over ...

ken

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rmrix posted this 26 February 2016

I am persuaded to believe that any bullet not rotating perfectly on its long axis flies in a helix. This reducing its Bc. Also, Bc is dynamic. Its Bc at the muzzle is not what it is at 100y and so on as flight continues. Below the trans-sonic range all bullets Bc improve dramatically however, even tho the Bc improves, some shapes fly stable sub-sonic and some are awful. An example of awful below the speed of sound is the Lyman Schmidtzer in either 40 or 45 cal.

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