MATCH WINNERS

  • 1.1K Views
  • Last Post 08 January 2016
joeb33050 posted this 05 January 2016

(This farging software won't print a table right-see the attachment.)

 

MATCH GROUP RATIOS

 

The CBA data is for CBA NM 2000-2013, PRO, PBB, HVY and UNR, group averages.

The 5 shot issue 100 yd data is from Ric Bowman, Military matches from 1006-2015 =10 years.

 

The numbers are ratios of group size averages, 2ND/1ST = second place average group size/first place average group size. 

 

 

 

Something is going on here, these ratios are remarkably constant, and suggest to me that there's something here that explains at least part of group size.

 

The second place shooter shoots groups averaging ~20% bigger than the first place shooter. 

The second place golfer doesn't average ~20% more strokes than the first place golfer, does he?

The second place baseball team doesn't average ~20% less runs than the first place, does it?

Football?  

Attached Files

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
John Alexander posted this 05 January 2016

I agree it is remarkable on both counts, how uniform the ratios are and how big.  Since the top few shooters rotate as winners and as placing 2nd, 3rd, or whatever, it isn't just one shooter being 20% better than one other.

The other thing that is remarkable is how counter the actual facts are to what we have been thinking.  The “FACT” that matches are won by a few thousandth is often and illogically used as an argument for being picky with loads.  e.g. “In heavy class, matches are won by a few thousandths so you need to sort bullets into 0.1 grain lots and use only one case."

Thanks for taking the trouble to present some facts that most of us didn't know.

John

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 05 January 2016

Joe B., John, Mtngun, et.al, I don't know what I should do for penance? I was quite wrong on this issue! It does appear that once you reach a certain skill level and your tools are adequate, the rest is mostly luck. At least using our present scoring methodology, maximum group size, we may be at a point of throwing dice.

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 05 January 2016

Ric,

Penance, at least for your sins on this thread, isn't called for.  You have let those silver tongued devils mtngun and Joe over convince you.

The way I see it, when several more or less equally skilled shooters with equally good equipment are shooting against each other luck (random events he has no control over) may help the winner. Who won't welcome some good luck.  But more than likely he was also helped that day with focusing better on the job at hand and doing a better job reading conditions and maintaining uniform bench technique. 

It is still usually true that the guy who practices the most is the luckiest. 

John

Attached Files

R. Dupraz posted this 05 January 2016

John:    ''The way I see it, when several more or less equally skilled shooters with equally good equipment are shooting against each other luck (random events he has no control over) may help the winner. Who won't welcome some good luck.  But more than likely he was also helped that day with focusing better on the job at hand and doing a better job reading conditions and maintaining uniform bench technique.''    “It is still usually true that the guy who practices the most is the luckiest.”     Couldn't have said it better myself.   Marksmanship skills, consistant bench technique, reading the conditions correctly and applying the  right corrections on any given day.     Oh yes, and moving the sight in the right direction helps too!    

Attached Files

frnkeore posted this 05 January 2016

Very interesting but, hard to read. My screen shows info on both sides of the screen and the alignment sucks, big time. But, I think I made it out accurately?

Can the same chart be done, using X count? I'm curious if the same percentage will hold.

Frank

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 06 January 2016

Then there's the IBS. For 2011 and 2012, 4 gun 100 and 200.
The CBA NM data, Ric's Military data, and IBS data, all grand averages:

            CBA              MIL5            IBS
2/1       1.20            1.16            1.06
3/1       1.35            1.25            1.09     
4/1       1.49            1.34            1.12
5/1       1.53            1.55            1.16

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 08 January 2016

Am I the only one surprised? Where are the opinions?

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 08 January 2016

Joe,

I'm still trying to get my head around what it means. It appears to me that the smaller the number the closer the next place shooter was to making the same size group as the shooter above. Therefore the jacketed bullet rifles and ammo would have five shooters within the spread as one and two cast bullet shooters.

So my opinion is that it is harder to make seated in the case cast bullets shoot as well as jacketed bullets, without regard to shooter skill or “Luck". I don't know why. However Goodsteel,mtngun and LMG seem to be working on the extreme edge of cast bullet accuracy so hopefully they will give us some insights.

Ric

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 08 January 2016

joeb33050 wrote: Am I the only one surprised? Where are the opinions? I was a little surprised to see the ratio between first and second as big as it it.  That may be because we remember the close ones better -- especially if we are second. Let me tell you about the 6th Army matches in 1957 -------.

Maybe I'm getting too old to be surprised very often or jaded. But as far as the IBS ratios being much smaller than the others, i just assumed that since IBS matches have a lot more shooters than CBA matches the smaller ratios reflected that.

John

Attached Files

frnkeore posted this 08 January 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6375>John Alexander wrote: But as far as the IBS ratios being much smaller than the others, i just assumed that since IBS matches have a lot more shooters than CBA matches the smaller ratios reflected that.  The other reason, as I see it, is that the accuracy differential is much smaller than cast matches. Frank

Attached Files

Categories
Search
Popular Tags
This Weeks High Earners
Hot Topics
Close