45-45-10 in the cold

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  • Last Post 27 January 2016
Wineman posted this 06 December 2015

Went to do a batch today and the garage temp was 50 F. Brought the 45-45-10 indoors for a few hours. At room temp is was still pretty thick and it would not slosh when shaken. I scooped some out and heated in a hot water bath. It turned liquid after a couple of minutes. I heated a bunch of 312299's and tumbled them. So far everything looks normal. The original container is almost full and kept tightly capped. Does cold have any effect other than to thicken it? Maybe after a day in the house it may thin out?

Dave

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 06 December 2015

Good one Dave! I read it and thought 45 caliber 45 grains of black and 10 ??? grain bullet?!!

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Wineman posted this 07 December 2015

TRK, I put in the lube section but I can see where you were coming from. At work we have these old (1930's vintage) redwood wine tanks. They range in size from 16,000 to over 250,000 gallons. I was told in the old days they were a real sight to see all clean and oiled. For us they are just winter storage and not that good (they leak, drip etc.) The doors have a wax seal that we make from 33% Beeswax, 33% paraffin, and 34% Vaseline. When we refill the tank, the door gets a new seal and we put the old wax in a solar still to separate the junk and reuse it. I tried it for pan lube but it seems a bit sticky, maybe best for black powder?

Dave

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 07 December 2015

WOW. Anything over 5 gallons (for wine) is beyond my brewing capabilities.

Yes, if I had access to beeswax/paraffin/Vaseline I'd sure try to do SOMETHING with it!

I'm using a paraffin/carnauba/lanolin/ATF mix for lube - works well cold or hot. Sure wish I knew the proportions - just added a little of this and that until I liked the consistency and performance.

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onondaga posted this 07 December 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=893>Wineman

45:45:10 is formulated to have a viscosity similar to Hershey Syrup at room temperature for ease of use following instructions. If your 45:45:10 is thicker than that at room temperature, you have lost deluent petroleum distillates to evaporation and the product increases in viscosity. You may add Mineral Spirits at any time to restore design viscosity with no ill effects to the product as you are only correcting what you have lost to evaporation.

A thermometer will easily tell you if your product is cooler than average room temperature of 70 degrees F.

The stuff does get stiff when cold, don't mistake that for evaporation of deluents. Check viscosity with product at 70 degrees F. and confusion will disappear.

Gary

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joeb33050 posted this 07 December 2015

What is 45=45=10? Do I need it. joe b.

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Wineman posted this 08 December 2015

Joe,

This is the modification of Lee's Liquid Alox formula. It is 45% Alox, 45% Johnson's paste wax with the solvent removed (best done with a double boiler and an electric heating plate) and 10% mineral spirits. It goes on easier, dries faster and is overall a better product than the original Liquid Alox. I got mine pre made through the kind and hard working people at LS White Label Lube: www.lsstuff.com Gary has pages of how to use it and I follow his instructions and have been very happy. You don't slather this stuff on, just two or three THIN coats and the correct bullet fit is all you need. Do you need it? It works for me but I keep velocity to 1,000-1,700 fps. Gary said you can go faster but I do not need to. A quart will last a long, long time. Give it a try.

Dave

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gpidaho posted this 08 December 2015

Joe: 45-45-10, do you need it? Let me go out on the limb and opine that what ever it is that you use to lube your bullets likely works just fine. I've made and used 45-45-10 and it works better and dries much faster than LLA. It's a PITA to make and I'm just not a tumble lube fan anyway, to each their own. If you want to make some up I'll be glad to send you a few bottles of LLA as I get more every time I buy a Lee push through size die and I've just started throwing it in the trash. Gp

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John Alexander posted this 08 December 2015

Joe, Don't try to make it unless you have some eye of newt and toad spit to add. It is a PITA. It is much easier to just buy it.  If you want to try it I have more than I will use of the ready made version from White Label and will make the same offer gpidaho did to send you some. I think they call it Xlox.

I have found that one thin layer works fine and putting on more is extra unless work.

I am not sure that it is better than just thinning LLA with mineral spirits as Ed Harris recommends but it sure as heck is more trouble to make.

If you lube bullets in big lots it saves time. Doing it in small lots takes more time than just running them through a lubrisizer -- if you heat the bullets and elixir as I seem to have to.

John

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joeb33050 posted this 08 December 2015

My position on free stuff is that I'll take it. If it doesn't work, I can always give it away. I hope you all have my address, which is: Joe Brennan 605 Water Oak Blvd. Lady Lake FOL 32159

I always send back the postage.  Almost always. Most of the time. Several times. Twice.

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Scearcy posted this 26 January 2016

Let me take this thread off on a very slight tangent. I mixed up a batch of 45-45-10 before Christmas. I lubed a large batch of bullets that I have been using for a new rifle project. Yesterday it was below 30 degrees. I decided to shoot anyhow. No loads shot well. Even the control load that has been good for me was subpar.

I know I may have been having a bad day. I have alot of them. However the poor results made me wonder. Is there a temperature below which tumble lube doesnt work as well. I didnt get any leading but everything was just loose. I shot 50 rounds so it was a good sized sample of groups.

Jim

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onondaga posted this 26 January 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7904>JHS

I have had no difference with temperature effecting accuracy on ammo with cast bullets lubed with 45:45:10 and have no reason to expect that. This lube goes on bullets wet and then dries by solvent evaporation leaving Alox and JPW on bullets. neither of those have a reputation or record of changing accuracy with cold temperature.

Your “everything was just loose” statement would only lead me to get out the micrometer and see if this bullet batch mikes a different diameter than the bullets that shot better.

Your bullets and lube will not change diameter because the range is cold. Your bullets will easily change diameter if your casting thermodynamics, casting method, cadence or casting alloy is  changed .

Gary

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Scearcy posted this 26 January 2016

GaryNope, same bullets out of the same box, lubed and sized the same day, etc.  Most likely explanation is that the shooter simply was having a bad day.  That is one of the reasons I usually carry 20 rounds from my control load.  If the control load is loose too, then I can  be pretty sure that the load I am testing that day requires a second chance before I discard it. Jim

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onondaga posted this 27 January 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7904>JHS

"Most likely explanation is that the shooter simply was having a bad day."  You gotta conquer that  man. I don't have those days because I have  a method.  I don't pull the trigger unless I can make it feel like it is my only shot every time. When I pull the trigger, I really don't care where they hit, but I only care about my bench form and sight picture being right the heck on. Don't shoot if you can't do that and you will do better. I actually get up and walk away if I can't level my form and sight picture centering on the center exactly. On a good day I can see some of  my bullets in flight. If you can't do that it is probably because you have other hobbies you like more.

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/creedmore_zpsdd697f07.jpg.html>

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