Casting with Lyman molds

  • 4.2K Views
  • Last Post 29 January 2016
joeb33050 posted this 01 December 2015

Yesterday I cast for a little over an hour with a Lyman 225646 mold. I marked one cavity so a dot shows on the nose, so bullets are “dot” and “no dot". This morning I inspected the bullets under a magnifier. There were 5 rejects. Dot, 115 bullets, sets of 10 weighed 597.2, 597.4, 596.5 grains No Dot, 117 bullets, sets of 10 weighed 596.5, 596.4, 596.7 grains

Casting is fast and easy. I've bought many bullet molds over the years, and don't like aluminum molds. LBT, NOE, LEE, Eagan brass, others. I have ! aluminum mold, NO 227-80, and it's going down the road. Lyman molds are all the others. They work, last almost forever, make bullets that shoot accurately, and they're iron. Maybe this is just opinion, but I've paid a lot of money for molds from wizards, and they're gone. Didn't work well. Most custom molds in 22 have bases too big to go in the gas checks, so I have to make gas-check-expanders and open the gas checks to fit the bullets. This from Eagan, NOE, LBT and the guy who passed away and his daughter moved the business to arizona or one of those hot dry states. Lyman.

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Cary Gunn posted this 29 January 2016

Gents,

I've begun to question the wisdom of weight-sorting bullets into “batches” in the hope of shooting tighter groups with weight-matched slugs.

Except in the case of gang molds with significant weight variation among bullets cast in the various cavities, it's my belief that any bullet that weighs appreciably less than the “standard weight” for the mold is a flawed bullet that can't be depended upon to shoot as well as the heavier standard weights pills.

In other words, a bullet weighing 198.1 grains from a cavity that normally drops 201-grain slugs is a less-accurate bullet with an air pocket in it.

 As long as normal casting precautions (maintaining alloy consistency, melt temp, mold temp, mold-handling and maintenance procedures, etc.) are taken, it seems to me there is no other explanation for an underweight casting.  Such bullets must have a void-pocket in them, and, depending on where the void is located, accuracy will suffer accordingly. 

So, sorting bullets from a “201-grain mold” into weight ranges lower than the standard is merely classifying the degree of inaccuracy that can be expected from each weight range. 

Considering that “201-grain mold,” I'd expect a batch of bullets weighing within .2 grains of each other -- in a range of 197.2 to 197.4 grains -- to group poorer than a batch of slugs varying a full grain in weight, but in a range of 200 to 201 grains.

A batch of the same bullets varying in weight not at all -- each weighing exactly 196.8 grains -- will likely produce even poorer groups than the heavier batch that varied .2-grain.

So, weighing to precisely match bullets weights within a “batch” in the search for greater cast bullet accuracy is, I think, a waste of time.

Any bullet that weighs less than standard is, it seems, by definition, an inaccurate bullet.  The degree of inaccuracy will be determined by the degree of weight loss, and the positioning within the bullet of the air pockets responsible for the lesser weight.

So, if I was seeking ultimate cast-bullet accuracy, I'd toss back into the pot any bullet the weighed less than 201 grains.  Or maybe, in a concession to reality, I'd toss back any bullet weighing less than, say, 199.5 grains.

Now, if only I can learn to shoot well enough to the see the difference on paper between a batch of 201-grainers and a batch weighing 196 grains, I'll be a contented marksman.

Anyway that's my opinion, and why I don't bother to weight-segregate other than to toss back any really light bullets.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

Attached Files

tlkeizer posted this 20 December 2015

Greetings,

I was given a Lyman 2-cavity mold for casting .440 round balls, and after casting 120 or so I weighed them for consistency, and had a bit of weight variation. Today after warming the mold with some casting I cast 25 in the front cavity then 25 in the back cavity, kept them separate, and weighed the two batches in sets of 4 RBs. The front cavity averaged 1.2 grains less than the back cavity. All the molten lead was from the same mixture and I did not add any lead during the casting to keep the solution consistent.

While some conventional wisdom I have read here says if the variance is less than 5% it does not matter (usually), I still segregated the weights by grain as when I shoot the postals I want the best chance of getting that @$%$ squirrel before he dodges behind the tree trunk and all I get is the toe.

IMHO I don't think the variance between cavities would make any difference if I used either weight hunting as circle of heart up to fifty yards keeps all shots in the circle (3 inch or smaller, usually under 2) when using mixed round balls.

Anyway, this is just for anybody's information in case they are interested.

TK

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 12 December 2015

12/11/15 225415

DOT, 205 KEEPERS, 10S WEIGHED 498.2, 498.1, 498.1 GRAINS

NO DOT, 199 KEEPERS, 10S WEIGHED 499.8, 500.8, 500.5 GRAINS

40-50 REJECTS, DON'T KNW WHY

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 12 December 2015

OK I understand. Good luck with that. John

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 11 December 2015

John Alexander wrote: joeb33050 wrote: I weighed 3 sets of 10 bullets, dot and no dot. The 225646 in 3 casting sessions worth of bullets, varied at most 1.6 grains. Is that 1.6 for all the bullets in the three sets or 1.6 as the biggest variation in one of the three sets?

I find that weights vary somewhat until the mold and casting frequency reach a steady state and then very little variation maybe .2grain for 80 grain bullets.  I warm the mold by dipping a corner in the pot until I get tired of waiting (not timed) after that 5-8 cycles of casting are enough to get to a steady state.  Three cavity 80 grain 22 aluminum mold.  NO I am not trying to get the Al vs. Fe vs. steel discussion going again.

John

WEIGH 3 SETS OF 10. MAX-MIN=VARIATION.I'M NOT WEIGHING INDIVIDUALS, SO DON'T KNOW VAR WITHIN SET. I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WEIGH SEGREGATE = FIND OUTLIER BULLETS WITHOUT WEIGHING EACH ONE.

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 11 December 2015

joeb33050 wrote: I weighed 3 sets of 10 bullets, dot and no dot. The 225646 in 3 casting sessions worth of bullets, varied at most 1.6 grains. Is that 1.6 for all the bullets in the three sets or 1.6 as the biggest variation in one of the three sets?

I find that weights vary somewhat until the mold and casting frequency reach a steady state and then very little variation maybe .2grain for 80 grain bullets.  I warm the mold by dipping a corner in the pot until I get tired of waiting (not timed) after that 5-8 cycles of casting are enough to get to a steady state.  Three cavity 80 grain 22 aluminum mold.  NO I am not trying to get the Al vs. Fe vs. steel discussion going again.

John

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 11 December 2015

I weighed 3 sets of 10 bullets, dot and no dot. The 225646 in 3 casting sessions worth of bullets, varied at most 1.6 grains.

225415 was different. Only 1 session, dot, 149 bullets, no dot 148 bullets--dot weight for 10 averaged 495.9 gr., no dot averaged 498.3. The weights differ between the 2 cavities. I don't know if it matters. There were 25 rejects on the 1 batch of 225415s, I started casting before everything was up to temp. oday another try.

Attached Files

delmarskid1 posted this 10 December 2015

I like whatever is on clearance. I just got a Lyman 4-holer for 73 bucks from Midway. I like iron molds the best. They do take longer to get warm but the also take longer to over heat.

Attached Files

mtngun posted this 09 December 2015

Last I heard Saeco used Meehanite many years ago but has since substituted a non-Meehanite iron.

NEI does claim to still use Meehanite.

Ah yes, a “special forumla.” That's called “advertising.” I'm sure Lee uses a “special formula,” too, most likely some variation on recycled beer cans.

You are welcome to call Saeco or Lyman and ask them yourself. In the meantime, they do not advertise their molds as being made of Meehanite and you can be sure that if they did use Meehanite they would advertise it because there is no other reason to use Meehanite other than advertising.

FYI Meehanite is not a “thing,” is http://www.meehanite.org/_en/page33.php>a proprietary process used to produce many types of iron. Saying that something is made out of Meehanite doesn't tell you much. Since Meehanite is proprietary, it costs more and has some snob appeal, but isn't necessarily any stronger or better than non-Meehanite irons.

Meehanite is another one of those cast bullet old wives tales that refuses to die. I've come to the conclusion that the difference between killing a cast bullet old wives tale and killing a werewolf is that if you drive a stake through the heart of a werewolf it will die, but if you drive a stake through the heart of a CB old wives tale it will merely go away for a little while and then return as good as new.

I have tested hundreds of cast iron molds. They run hotter than aluminum, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the application. Hot is good for lighter bullets and for BP alloys, not so good for big bores with antimonial alloys that are susceptible to heat shrink.

Agree that controlling the temperature is one key. Controlling the temperature is largely a function of matching the bullet and the alloy to the block. Get it right and casting is a breeze. Get it wrong and you have to hold your mouth just right to produce good bullets. But what do I know, I've merely tested thousands of molds?

You are most welcome to stick to your Lyman molds, Joe, if they work well for you. There is nothing wrong with them. There is nothing wrong with an aluminum or brass mold, either, as long as the combination is a good match.

BTW, thanks for your posts on your trials and tribulations with 22 caliber. I hope to lose my 22 CB virginity in the coming months.

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 09 December 2015

mtngun wrote: 3rd edition of Lyman CB Handbook, page 54, says “cold rolled steel".

I believe your 457125 is a single cavity? The heavy macho magnum bullets are too big for the double cavity Lyman block.

I'm not knocking Lyman molds, the one I tried cast and shot nicely. But in general, whether a mold casts well with a particular bullet is about matching the bullet to the block. The best block for a 700 gr. 500 caliber is not the best block for a 55 gr. 22.A little searching on the net shows references to NEI, SAECO and LYMAN making molds from Meehanite. The Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets, the first one, the 1957 one, on pages 30 and 31 shows the same pictures as the 3rd edition. On pg. 30, top left picture, caption reads:"Cast malleable iron blocks of a special formula are purchased by Lyman Gun Sight Corporation for its line of bullet molds."

That taken care of, I'll say that I can and have cast successfully with Lyman blocks about 1.375” X 1.230” X 1.5” -, in DC 225415 @55gr, DC 314299 @~208 gr, and SC 457193 @ 405 gr. One size fits almost all, in CAST IRON. Aluminum-I don't know. Brass, I don't know. Cast Iron, I know.

Controlling temperature is the key, I and many others pour, then cool the mold bottom on a wet sponge = a little steam, then open the mold. I ALWAYS make it clear that water near the lead pot is DANGEROUS! My sponge is in a pie pan well below the pot rim. See the picture.

Attached Files

mtngun posted this 09 December 2015

3rd edition of Lyman CB Handbook, page 54, says “cold rolled steel".

I believe your 457125 is a single cavity? The heavy macho magnum bullets are too big for the double cavity Lyman block.

I'm not knocking Lyman molds, the one I tried cast and shot nicely. But in general, whether a mold casts well with a particular bullet is about matching the bullet to the block. The best block for a 700 gr. 500 caliber is not the best block for a 55 gr. 22.

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 09 December 2015

mtngun wrote: http://www.mountainmolds.com/>Mountain Molds. Last I heard Lyman molds were made of Meehanite, cast Iron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meehanite

I've cast quite a few Lyman 457125s at ~525 grains, that's a fairly heavy bullet. Lyman makes 69 cal musket molds, 12 ga slug molds, 566 gr parker hale molds etc.  

However, if aluminum works for you, go to it! Lyman molds have worked for me since 1960, still work fine. Just saying.

Attached Files

mtngun posted this 09 December 2015

http://www.mountainmolds.com/>Mountain Molds.

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 09 December 2015

mtngun wrote: Well Joe, you are entitled to your opinions, as we all are. Last I heard Lyman molds are made out of steel, not iron.   They were designed at a time when a 230 gr. 45 acp bullet was considered a big bulet, so the blocks are relatively small and they heat up quickly.   The Lyman block is appropriate for the bullets that great grandpa used to cast but not so much for today's macho magnums. There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all mold, or a one-size-fits-all sprue plate.   For good casting qualities, the block and the sprue plate need to be matched to the bullet and the alloy.    

Also the bullet design influences the casting properties.    Some designs fill out easier than others, or release easier.      You have never bought an aluminum or brass mold from me, not that I am trying to sell you one.   Just saying, :D   :D   :D   :D   :D

If you're Veral Smith at LBT, I've bought maybe 6-8 molds from you. If you're not, who are you?

Attached Files

mtngun posted this 09 December 2015

Well Joe, you are entitled to your opinions, as we all are. Last I heard Lyman molds are made out of steel, not iron.   They were designed at a time when a 230 gr. 45 acp bullet was considered a big bulet, so the blocks are relatively small and they heat up quickly.   The Lyman block is appropriate for the bullets that great grandpa used to cast but not so much for today's macho magnums. There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all mold, or a one-size-fits-all sprue plate.   For good casting qualities, the block and the sprue plate need to be matched to the bullet and the alloy.    

Also the bullet design influences the casting properties.    Some designs fill out easier than others, or release easier.      You have never bought an aluminum or brass mold from me, not that I am trying to sell you one.   Just saying, :D   :D   :D   :D   :D

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 05 December 2015

12/4/15 cast 409 + 3 rejects 225646M. Under 2 hours. Here's my casting setup. Plastic tub, 2' X 2' 1/2” ac plywood, al foil under pot, towel to drop bullets on, pie pan and spong and water to cool mold, cap of LLA to dip nozzle in, razor blade to put Alox on pins, all friction points, brass brush to brush spatter off mold, screwdriver to tighten brass sprue plate lock screw, lighter to ignite flux at the end of the session.

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 03 December 2015

Paul Pollard wrote: Joe B wrote this about a year ago. 22780 NOE mold. I'm confused.

I got my mold, 4 cavity, Monday, and cast Tuesday. First try with an aluminum mold is always frought, but got some good bullets. Today will be better.I measured 10 at random.Weight 78.3 to 78.7 grains, Nose, perpendicular to parting line at the first band .2193"-.2198"Bands, perp to parting line, .2278"-.2281"Bright, shiny and sharp. The sprue sticks to the forward black sprue plate stop screw, PITA.The nose punch made a line = step on bullet nose, a couple of turns with the cricket fixed that. Gas checks went on easily.Sized in .228” die, lubed above GC only.Beautiful bullets, the mold is just great. 

Here's the NOE manual flash remover. Is the confusion going away? Bullet Base Chamfer Tool - Manual http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/ChamferTool.jpg>

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 03 December 2015

Paul Pollard wrote: Joe B wrote this about a year ago. 22780 NOE mold. I'm confused.

I got my mold, 4 cavity, Monday, and cast Tuesday. First try with an aluminum mold is always frought, but got some good bullets. Today will be better.I measured 10 at random.Weight 78.3 to 78.7 grains, Nose, perpendicular to parting line at the first band .2193"-.2198"Bands, perp to parting line, .2278"-.2281"Bright, shiny and sharp. The sprue sticks to the forward black sprue plate stop screw, PITA.The nose punch made a line = step on bullet nose, a couple of turns with the cricket fixed that. Gas checks went on easily.Sized in .228” die, lubed above GC only.Beautiful bullets, the mold is just great. 

by Harold Leaming : Almost too pretty to use. Does more than remove flashing from boolit base.Given manufacturing tolerances with Al g'check materiel thicknesses (.014"-.016") and mould g'check shanks,I have had some difficulty pressing the g'check cup onto the boolit shank. This tool will cut a small, smooth bevel allowing an easy entry of shank into the formed cup.

A review of the tool above, from the NOE site.

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 03 December 2015

Paul Pollard wrote: Joe B wrote this about a year ago. 22780 NOE mold. I'm confused.

I got my mold, 4 cavity, Monday, and cast Tuesday. First try with an aluminum mold is always frought, but got some good bullets. Today will be better.I measured 10 at random.Weight 78.3 to 78.7 grains, Nose, perpendicular to parting line at the first band .2193"-.2198"Bands, perp to parting line, .2278"-.2281"Bright, shiny and sharp. The sprue sticks to the forward black sprue plate stop screw, PITA.The nose punch made a line = step on bullet nose, a couple of turns with the cricket fixed that. Gas checks went on easily.Sized in .228” die, lubed above GC only.Beautiful bullets, the mold is just great. 

Bullet Base Chamfer Tool - Power tool http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/PowerBBCT.jpg>

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 02 December 2015

Monday after shooting a guy talked at me about cast bullets for a long time. He says he casts >1500 pounds of 357 and 429 bullets each winter. He explained that aluminum molds   get marked/gouged/scratched by the sprue plate. I've certainly seen that. I wonder if the sprue plate raises a burr, allowing alloy to make a teeny lip around the GC shank and making gas checks hard to go on.

Attached Files

Show More Posts
Close