in cleaning out my shop, i find about 40 miles of small gauge copper wire ( left over from winding toy car motors ) ...
wire wrapped cast bullets ?
phil sharpe thought they were wonderful; anybody tried this ? if the wire is small, the ends wouldn't have to match.
ken
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I have never tried it Ken, how would you wrap it and what would happen at the lube grooves.?? Please try a few Ken I fear the rotation of the slug would tend to sling the wire off. Probibly the direction of wrap would be critical. Frank C.
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I seem to remember, quite a few years ago, something in the Rifleman about wire wound bullets. Seems to me the wire coil may have been installed in the mold, with the lead poured inside the coil.
If I saw it in the Rifleman, I may still have the copy (I've been a member since the late '40s) and some of these days I may have/take enough time to find it. Do any of you guys have some kind of index of past issues?
Interesting idea - but I don't think I want to try it.
Wes
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Wire wrapped bullets sound like a fun, but somewhat tedious project. If I were to try to do it I would first size the cast bullet (preferably a soft alloy) to a diameter less two times the diameter of the wire. I would wrap the wire in the same direction as the twist of the barrel, although this may not be necessary if the finished bullet is .002 to .003 larger that the bore. Oh heck just make it to fit the throat. That way as the bullet enters the barrel the wire would be smooshed (squeezed, sized down) into the sides of the bullet. I would also want a smooth sided bullet to make the wrapping easier.
As to wrapping the bullet. I have wrapped many fishing rods over the years, and the easiest way to do it is to have some machine turn the rod blank. I think that a Case trimmer might work pretty well for this if you could make something to replace the case holder (like a live center) to keep the bullet running true. Starting and finishing the wrap would be a challenge. If you just overlap the wire like you do the thread at the start and finish of the wrap you will have an out of balance bullet unless the start and finish are 180 degrees apart each other along the axis of the projectile.
All in all it would be easier to wrap around the proper sized mandrel cut the “spring” to length, and preheat it and cast the bullet around it in a mold.
It's not something I am volunteering to do but it is still an interesting idea. You might even be able to equal the velocity and accuracy of good paper patched lead bullets. Which are a lot easier to do anyway. Brodie
B.E.Brickey
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The wire covered patented bullets were sold at least between 1906 and 1911. The shooters of the day said there was no advantage over lead cored and copper or nickel jacketed bullets. I believe it was an attempt to make a bullet that would stand smokeless powder speeds with less machinery than drawing jackets. FWIW, Ric
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Thank you Rick, I did not know that they actually existed.
B.E.Brickey
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Ideal even made a special seating stem for them in 30 Government Model 1906 for their new #10 hand tool.
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i was kinda thinking in my survivalist mode ... btw, a good read is _american guerrillas in the philippines _ ( sp? ) ...
ken
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The DVD for DVD ROM by Wolfe Publishing The Art of Bullet Casting, Bullet making annual II 1991 Has an exellent write up on wire-wound bullets by Jim Foral, It has a picture of the coils and how the tag ends are turned into the 168gr core to prevent seperation during firing and impact. GP
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A similar trick was talked about a few years ago using pieces of copper tubing placed in the driving bands of bullet molds before filling the mold. I tried it, using short pieces of 3/8 inch copper tubing in the driving bands of my 375 H and H mold. It will work to prevent leading and allow high cast bullet velocity. I didn't get very good accuracy and gave up on it. I think if you had very good control of the length of the copper tube length,so you could get repeatable lengths, good to a mil or so, the accuracy might be better. I didn't have that kind of control.
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heh ... i have thousands of drop-offs of 0.312 x 0.030 wall aluminum tubing ... saved because i am a hoarder. about 4 inches long .. anybody for using these as short jackets... gas checks ? ... molded-mid-jackets ? ...
could a gas check just be a tube? or a washer ? does it have to be a solid base ? the exposed lead doesn't melt in a full metal jacket .. right. ? brass washers are cheaper than gas checks.
ken
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Tubing in the lube grooves, wire wound bullets and washers? I know I'm in the minority here, but you guys will sure go to extremes to avoid giving powder coat a try! Will you get bench rest accuracy? Probably not, but you will get minute of coyote and better. It is after all just an easy to apply vinyl paper patch. It bumps up the size a little and separates lead from bore. As to tubing in the grooves, wire winds and washers, I think at times you just need to ignore the GOOD IDEA fairy. GP
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some old guy told me it is easier to pull a rope than to push it ... i would like to see comparative tests ... that would pull a bunch of us in ... sooner or later ( g ) .
ken
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Ken, I remember pictures of some rifle bullets with a tube jacket, similar to the old Speer partial jackets but with lead bases exposed. The idea was for us to place that tube in a smooth mold and pour into it.
A big game bullet maker used to form sections of brass(?) tubing for jackets. The author of an article sectioned some and his pictures showed uneven thickness in the bases where the tubes were folded.
About the washer idea, it's Corbin's :); with just a little hole to hold onto the lead.
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Ken: In rereading my previous post I can see that it might seem that I'm being critical of others. That was by no means the intent. I find myself in no position to make that sort of judgment. There are many things to our hobby that have been common knowledge among most CBA members for years that I am just beginning to suspect. As to a side by side testing, if you mean powder coat against wire ties and tubing wrapped in the grooves, I can assure you that I have neither the dexterity of hand nor the patience for that. If as I suspect you mean powder coat against commonly used lubes then I would like to share a few observations with you. I've been working for the last few months with seven different rifles on the lube Vs. PC thing. I have found that if you are shooting a rifle that displays good accuracy, I can't find anything to be gained with PC, in fact if using the same bullet with both you are changing dimensions of the bullet with PC which most likely will degrade accuracy. This brings me to the place where I think PC really shines (pun intended) and that is in the adjustment of the size of the bullet. Along with alloy adjustments and different sizers the PC can be used to bump up the bullet in specific areas, nose, bands or both. This being very helpful to me in old Mil-surp. rifles. With the honing out of one cavity of my Lee C312-185-2R mould and with the use of a variety of sizing dies and or PC I can now fit bullets back in the unsized cases of both my 762x54R and my 303 Brit, markedly improving their accuracy with no leading and making cleaning a breeze. In all I see PC as one more sizing tool. Thanks for your ear GP
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hey, good to get some results with rifles and powder coat.
how much can i build up on the undersized nose of my 130 gr. lee 7mm mold ? with pc. in a rifle that shoots mj into 1 moa, that lee cast goes 3-4 moa., nose no doubt collapsing at launch.
hey, how about powder coated wire ?
just kidding ...( g )
ken
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Ken: There is some variation one powder to the next and whether you are electrostatic coating or using the dry tumble method. In general you can expect .0015 or so per coat. This is going to be kind of long winded so I'm going to E-Mail you so not to bore members that have no interest. GP
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John Carlson
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beltfed
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RicinYakima
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