I'd like to get opinions about the use of fillers. There was a pretty successful cast bullet shooter a few years back supposedly using sill sealer. There's also Kapok, Dacron, and who knows what else. I'd really like to hear some suggestions and opinions.
Thanks,
Pat Iffland
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I have shot IMR and H 4198 without the dacron tuft and have found unburnt grains of powder in the case as well as the barrel which is the reason I went to the tuft of dacron to start with. Since using it I have found no unburnt powder.
beekeeper
Right on :)
It also enhances the performance across the chronograph with lower ES and SD. Not that low ES and SDs' are a key in accuracy, but one other 'good' or better factor towards accuracy...........DanW
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The only time I have ever experienced any thing similar was with a .22 rifle designed for 22long and long rifle. The owner (a stock yard/slaghter house) used 22 shorts in it for many years and when 22 long rifle were fired through it the cases stuck. The shorts ,over the years had gas cut a ring in the chamber and it ws enough to stick a long or long rifle case. My way of thinking is a proper case legnth and a proper sized bullet would eliminate the problem. runfiverun spoke of increased pressures. That I can see as a tuft of dacron holding the powder on the primer would give more complete ignition and there fore an increase in pressure. I have shot IMR and H 4198 without the dacron tuft and have found unburnt grains of powder in the case as well as the barrel which is the reason I went to the tuft of dacron to start with. Since using it I have found no unburnt powder.
beekeeper
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I do not doubt it is possible to ring a chamber.
The people who talk about it have had it happen to them.
What I do not understand is how it happens and would like an explanation of how.
Now I am not the sharpest pencil in the box but it seems to me to be sort of impossible for a dacron puff of 1/2 grain to ring a steel chamber .
To ring a chamber would require a solid obstruction and a blown cartridge if not an explosion would it not?
I use 1/2 grain of dacron over IMR or H 4198 in my 7.62X54 R rounds and in my 8 MM Mauser rounds as the powder is very position sensitive and have had no problems(so far) and have considered it in other calibers as well but if there is going to be a problem I would like to know about it and be prepared.
I am interested in any particulars that anyone knows for a fact.
beekeeper
You are right in a way, the 1/2gr of Dacron is not obstructive in its self, but I think it is a combination of unburnt powder and the Dacron. It is not an explosion that would cause the ring, so it has to be the combination to cause an obstruction.
In short, I've been using Dacron or cotton and Sil Plate wads for 5 years now with most likely 4,000 or 5,000 rounds shot with no problems. I don't use 1/2gr of Dacron, but use the least amount of material that will hold the powder in position. I believe the least amount of material is the safest. (no garantees)
I think the shooters who have ringed a chamber were using 3-4gr of Dacron to fill the space completely but loosely, then at ignition the unburnt powder compresses the loose Dacron. Most the time it is shot out, but then one time it acts as an obstruction, then a ringed chamber. No proof, just my thoughts.
My facts are shot under match conditions, no shaken or disturbed rounds. Hunters toting such ammo may have problems as carried rounds may loose the Dacron wad in the powder and get mixed in any messy configuration..............DanW
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Contender carbine in 38-55. I was loading Unique at about 13 GR and seating a fiber wad over the powder with a stick.
That's a starting load for the 375 H&H magnum, are you sure you meant 13 grains?
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Several years ago we had an ongoing (several issues worth) discussion of ringed chambers and their cause in The Fouling Shot. I participated with one article. I didn't contribute much, except a plea for more reports from actual occurances, by shooters who had witnessed or experienced this unhappy phenomenon, so that we might figure out what was actually happening when a chamber is ringed. The discussion was pretty much ended by another contributor (I'm too lazy too go look it up so as to give him proper credit). He observed that if the problem started occurring in automobile cylinders, an army of engineers would immediately be sicced on it and it would be solved in a matter of days, but since it was just a problem for those weird CB shooters, we were probably just out of luck.
I believe he was right.
Wes
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I do not doubt it is possible to ring a chamber. The people who talk about it have had it happen to them. What I do not understand is how it happens and would like an explanation of how. Now I am not the sharpest pencil in the box but it seems to me to be sort of impossible for a dacron puff of 1/2 grain to ring a steel chamber . To ring a chamber would require a solid obstruction and a blown cartridge if not an explosion would it not?
I use 1/2 grain of dacron over IMR or H 4198 in my 7.62X54 R rounds and in my 8 MM Mauser rounds as the powder is very position sensitive and have had no problems(so far) and have considered it in other calibers as well but if there is going to be a problem I would like to know about it and be prepared.
I am interested in any particulars that anyone knows for a fact.
beekeeper
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Frank Marshall used to cut wads of Wonder Bread from his uneaten half sandwiches to reload .45-70s at the range. Load the buttered side up. In a pinch you could use Pumperknickel or rye, but plain old spongy American grocery store bread is fine. Recovered wads if you find any supposedly become crunchy little black “mouse .>cookies."
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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You know, If a guy wanted a thick wad for use under a PB bullet for use in a straight wall case, you could cut out wads out of rice cakes. Use rice puffs with it for a filler. Then lay down a clean sheet in front of your shooting area and collect the charred hot pieces of rice for a warm snack. :D ...........DanW
I wonder if rice fillers could classify our ammo as 'Green' ammo?
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Being ready to load some Cap & Ball revolver bullets for light loads in my 45-70, I got to thinking of the Super Grex and Puflon. Having neither, I got to looking at the rigid expanded beaded packaging from my new computer monitor. Dropping a few pieces into the glass container of my Osterizer, I hit the “frappe'” button. The results were less then uniform, plus I have created a capicator or voltaic cell with all of the foam stuck to the top of the container. Try #2.....the round “zest” grater yields a uniformly fine product, but again the static electricity makes the stuff untouchable, not to mention getting the material off of my hands and the grater. I don't care for the added weight of COW, and this grated foam product weighs almost nothing, if the static problem could be resolved. Maybe tomorrow I can clean out the Osterizer, meanwhile, the other pile........I hope that I don't sneeze. I do have a bag of puffed rice, hummm, do you remember the advertisement of 50 years ago? Quaker puffed rice and puffed wheat..."shot from guns".
Edit:
30 minutes later... added 1/4 teaspoon of fine graphite per cup of fluff, which effectively killed the static
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Thanks Dan, I think your right. my problem was trying to ease-up on max or leading which ever came first, I think I found a resounding MAX! I should have known this...just approaching this cast bullet thing more like I would while shooting jacketed instead of thinking in terms of low-pressure lead bullet rounds. Thanks, Wayne
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Wayne,
I think you have hit a high pressure peak with the Unique powder. I'm not sure what the load book recommendation is for your 38-55, but it sounds to me to be on the top side.
I only use Unique for low velocity loads. I tried using it at the top loads for my 44 magnum years ago and it was just too 'peaky', somedays OK and somedays too hot. I've played with it in my 30-06 and 40-70 and find the same thing, 9-10grs OK, but any increase to 11-12grs and peak pressures seem to happen by hard extraction and flat primers. I'd think 2400, 5744 or even 4198 would work better for you to push 1,600fps.
I saw two guys at the range shooting 38-55s. Don't know any of their load data but they bragged about how great their cork OPs worked.............DanW
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I found that corn meal cereal will take on moisture in the .45 Colt. Therefore, I avoid anything that might absorb moisture as a filler. I do not recommend it, but I have used styrofoam in the .45 Colt, but its a pain to cut out the wads and then load them on a progressive. I will look into the sill seal. For .45 Colt shooters, there is the .45 Special, which I highly recommend. It has a .45 Colt head, but is the length of the ACP.
Dale M. Lock
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I don't know about ringing a chamber, but I made a huge discovery yesterday while working with my TC Contender carbine in 38-55. I was loading Unique at about 13 GR and seating a fiber wad over the powder with a stick. Components were: Starline Brass, CCI LR primers, Unique powder, and A 200 GR cast bullet of WW with a gas check. These bulet were sized .379 for my .3765 bore. The velocities were 1625 FPS average with SDs around 6-10. My groups at 50 YDs were right at 1- 1.25. and I was pretty happy until I went back to my loading bench to size some cases for the next string. The primer pocket were stretched to the point the they would barely hold a primer. I was a little up-set as this was near new brass, and the load showed such promise. I dropped it down but still had a stretched primer or two afterwards. I think it's from the use of the fiber wads, but not sure. Today I'll try it with out the wads and use kapok instead. I'll post my results later. Guys, have you got any thoughts on why this happened? I know, I know, to hot a load. but the primers did not show me anything to support that. Could this be the same dynamics that has caused ringing in others rifles? Thanks for your Responses, Wayne
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ringing is caused when the filler is not touching both the bullet and the powder.
if it is just touching the powder it is slammed forward and into the bullet causing a ringed chamber.
fillers are at thier best when used with a medium speed powder
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I hear alot about ” ringing chambers” but really don't know what that means or what to look for.What is suppose to happen to cause it?
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Back in the 60's and 70's I shot a lot of 30-06 with fillers...Kapok, Dacron, cotton balls etc.
One day while shooting an 03-A3 and 311284 with a Dacron filler I ringed a chamber in the bbl. I replaced the bbl and several months later I ringed another bbl. I have not shot a fillered load since and, I've not ringed a chamber since.
I was shooting a Schutzen match once and a fellow there was shooting a 45-70 with that green foam stuff that is used by florists. He ringed the chamber of his new Pedrisoli Sharps.
When I first heard about Pufflon I wanted to try it. I called the fellows marketing the stuff and talked with them for a while. They were going to send me some to try. They didn't send me any and I have not tried any, and at this point, I don't think I'll ever fool with any fillers again.
I just don't think that it is worth it.
Bob 11B50
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I will not fire any round that has a fill of less then 90% with out a bit of danron quilt batting in it. I fire maybe 2500 cast rifle rounds a year with out one chamber ring.
All my reloading is aimed toward hunting so lifting the barrel is out of the question.
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I've used dacron filler on reduced 223 rounds w/ good success. A word of caution though- if any of your firearms have brakes- I would strongly suggest not using any at all.
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A couple of years ago, I was playing with a .416 Remington on a 'ruger #1. I was shooting 350gr RCBS bullet cast from pure linotype. Started with 50 gr. of IMR4895 and was working up. I got to thinking about all the empty space in the case and started putting a 1 inch square of dacron quilt batting in the case and topping it off with Super Grex buckshot buffer.(filled to the base of the neck)The last loads I played with was up to 70 grains of IMR4895 and they shot into about 2 inches at 200 yards.
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A couple of years ago, I was playing with a .416 Remington on a 'ruger #1. I was shooting 350gr RCBS bullet cast from pure linotype. Started with 50 gr. of IMR4895 and was working up. I got to thinking about all the empty space in the case and started putting a 1 inch square of dacron quilt batting in the case and topping it off with Super Grex buckshot buffer.(filled to the base of the neck)The last loads I played with was up to 70 grains of IMR4895 and they shot into about 2 inches at 200 yards.
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John Carlson
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Bud Hyett
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linoww
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MP1886
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Wilderness
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MarkinEllensburg
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drone
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Aaron
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beltfed
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Lucky1
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