38 super accuracy loads

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blackhawk posted this 23 February 2014

Winter is slowly working its way out of tt hese parts, and soon I'll be able to break out the semi autos without having to dig my brass out of the snow banks.  I'll be working with a Kimber 38 super, and have cast up 2 different Lee bullets to try; one is a 120 gr. TC, the other is a 125 gr. RN, sized at .357.  Am wondering if any CBA members may have worked up any decent loads using either of these bullets in the super.  May be some one can save me some load development time.  But then, that's part of the fun isn't it?  Thanks for the help.

    blackhawk

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giorgio de galleani posted this 25 February 2014

The starlings arrived  a few dats ago in the Po valley,usually after their arrival, we have to endure only one cold perturbation before spring weather. The snow has meted. I am loading buckets of  9x21 and 38 super in my 911 clones, an STI Spartan and an Auto-Ordnance Thompson pistol-, I use both the Lee molds ( six cavity)you have. I use old wheel weights ,range scrap and a mix of plumber's lead with a little lynotype . The round nose passes through an RCBS lubrisizer,The TTL  is lubed with XLOX from LESTUFF  and a Lee push trough die. Quenchig them all in cold water ,directly from the mold. And sizing bouth to 357 .. I use air cooled bullets in the same  for light Cow-Boy Shooting 38sp loads. My 9mm bore auto pistols lead horribly with soft alloys. I have normal issue recoil springs, because with reduced power springs the pistol won't shut the slide reliably . I use Granular Cheddite Grossa,which is a single base shotgun powder ,similar to Red Dot and PB in relative quickness. A little less than 5 grains in the nine ,more in the 38 super. Any fast  economical shotgun powder made for 30- 32 grams of shot in the 12 gauge will do.  It must meter  reliably through  a Lee  powder disk measure. All are loade in a Dillon 550 with 4  Lee dies ,with factory crimp. I sit in a position who lets me spot a double charge in the hulls. Safety first.  I use the lowest weight that reliably cycles the action . You have to do a lot of experimenting and load development in your gun.That is half of the fun. The 38 super accepts  38 revolver bullets with any nose configuration and they reliabily cicle the action , consider what your goals are you have a GREAT lot of work to do, I should say an endless pleasure.  I use a velocity around 1100 fps wit a power factor around 130 that is correct enough for fun shooting at steel plates. This combo shoots decently and does not lead the bore and I can shoot over 150 rounds without cleaning.   My goals is  economical fun shooting at reactive targets ,with minute of steel plate accuracy without leading and dirty pistol stoppages.

blackhawk posted this 02 March 2014

Giorgio,

    Thank you so much for your info on 38 super accuracy loads.  Up to this point, all my shooting has been done with the Hornady 115 & 124 jhp's.  I am looking forward to coming up with some decent lead bullet loads.  My work with the jacketed bullets has been very rewarding.  I will try to keep you posted on any positive results.  Thanks again.

    blackhawk 

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giorgio de galleani posted this 03 March 2014

Just to give you some more work, I have re read an article on  one of the Wolfe's magazines , the author is Ed Harris, about the 9 Luger with cast bullets. 

He prefers heavier bullets for lower pressures and better accuracy with cast bullets.

Perhaps you could at the clever designs of the aluminum gang molds made by Accurate Molds, they are well made ,a lttle more expensive than Lee's.

And what a pity that Ranch Dog Molds is out of bisness, clever designs and low cost................................

A never ending research indeed.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 03 March 2014

I try to post Ed's story on the 9mm

To view the file right click on the file name select <Save target as> change the .txt on the file to .pdf and save.  You will then be able to view it where you saved it to.

Mike CBA Webmaster in training

PS: I have the software people working on the problem

 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 03 March 2014

can't interpret the pdf code; my adobe reader didn't wake up. sigh.

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Vassal posted this 03 March 2014

I didn't realize contemporary Italian was so unique!

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giorgio de galleani posted this 03 March 2014

THE damned PC machine has betrayed me.

Sorry ,please be patient.

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Duane Trusty posted this 03 March 2014

blackhawk

This is an old Lyman load, with the original Unique

Lyman 358311 (158 gr round nose) with 4.4 gr to 5.1 max of Unique 1.245 OAL.

I have used this load years ago, had to use 5.0 gr Unique for reliable function in a 1911 with a standard 14 lb recoil spring.

Duane

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Wineman posted this 04 March 2014

My 1970's Colt Series 70 has the standard headspace on the semi rim chamber. Accuracy was minute of bad guy only if he was close. I went with a 158 grain 358 bullet seated far enough out to engage the lands, with 5.3 of Unique (new) and a CCI 500 SP primer. Problem solved. Went from paper plate groups to 2.5” groups at 25 yards. The only issue is that you need to shoot at a quiet range, as finding the 38 Super cases in the mounds of 9mm on the ground is a real pain. I put a cheap 9 mm barrel on it but have not worked the kinks out of the new set up yet.

Dave

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giorgio de galleani posted this 04 March 2014

My barrel too headspaces on the the mouth of the cartridge cases, and I too have the problem to shoot alone to retrieve the brass.mixed vith a lot of 9x21 spent cases. I have ordered a cheap 9x21 barrel to benefit from the large quantities of cheap brass available. But when  the brass retriving problem is avoided,I feel that the 38 super , with heavy bullets just  cycling the action is the best cast bullet caliber. PS I do really have the 9mm Ed Harris story , in Rifle 103. It appeared in the FS , but I do not know the number of the issue.    

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Wineman posted this 05 March 2014

The original barrels (mine included) headspace on the semi rim. There is no shoulder for the case mouth to touch. This causes the round to wobble a bit and does not help accuracy. New barrels have a shoulder and the semi rim does not come into play.

Dave

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gold40 posted this 11 May 2014

My 1950's Colt LW Commander .38 Super does well with 6.1 gr. of Unique and the Lee 125 gr. RN (lino), sized to .356. I seat the bullet “long” to just touch the rifling.

My dad (deceased)was a part-time Deputy Sheriff, and this was his only handgun. He didn't reload, and only used the factory fmj ammo in those days. Fortunately, he had never had to shoot anyone.

gold40

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Wineman posted this 13 May 2014

One of the few mistakes made by Colt to go with a Semi Rim. They should have thought that out when the went from the 38 Auto to the Super (also a longer case??)

Dave

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enfieldshooter posted this 31 July 2015

To revive this thread. Blackhawk , If you haven't worked your load yet I have been shooting 38 Super with those same two CBs.The 120TC casts out at 124 for me. I coat with MCC 2K mix and size to .356.I use 4.0grns of H Clays at 1.230 OAL. I am a NRA Action Pistol competitor and in my Open gun they shoot 2” at 50yds. The round nose I use in my iron sight gun with 3.8 of H Clays and are nearly as accurate at 3” over a rest.I am trying HiTek2 coating this weekend as it is a simpler process.We will see what results I get with that.

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