I am a capable handloader but have no experience with a broad range of powders. My humble stable contains the following rifles, 22 Hornet, 32-20, 32 Special, 303 Brit, and Marlin 444. I'm looking to stockpile a few powders that would meet my need for both jacketed and my growing cast habit. I like bulky powders that work well with standard primers, consistent through mid to full power. You couldn't give me a magnum bolt rifle so real slow is not required. In fact any future guns will likely be small bore cast shooters easy on powder and lead for sniping pesky pine cones, the deadly stump knot, and my favorite game the tin can. I currently own some Trail Boss and H4227 and like SR 4759 for its bulk and speed and midrange performance. Lil Gun seems the hands down choice for the Hornet? What other powders might you recommend for this group? Perhaps two groups are in order?
All around cast powder for my stable?
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- Last Post 13 November 2015
LilGun is great for the Hornet and jacketed bullets but H110 or WC820 eat less metal out of your chamber throats and be friendlier to cast bullets; and your other 2 powders are fine for cast in general too. If adding one additional powder, I'd choose H4895 and lose the Trail Boss completely.
Trail Boss works but did you ever hear anybody brag about terrific accuracy with it? You won't. TB is much like a fast pistol powder that has a high rise short duration pressure curve that slams cast bullets and blows accuracy out of the results. It is fine for close range gong shooting but NOT for targets or squirrels.
Hodgdon's 60% rule for reduced loads and youth loads is the perfect place to start with cast bullets and very easy to get a handle on. Just go to the Hodgdon site and look up the directions for reduced loads using H4895. It is hard to get bad accuracy with H4895 unless your bullets don't fit. I use it with cast bullets in .223, 30-30, 30-06. .308 Win, 7.62X39, 375 H&H, and .458 Win Mag. and every rifle has a load that shoots 1” or less at 50 yards with H4895 even my Black Bear load in .458 Win Mag with a 350 gr cast GC bullet at 1700 fps .
Gary
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Hi Bob, You are off to a good start. In addition to the recommendations made by Tim and Gary, AA5744 and Unique have provided me with good results and versatility. You will likely have others chime in and suggest 2400, Red Dot, etc for various loads/velocity levels/applications. With the current supply situation, powder choice may be determined by what is available, rather what we really want. Your decision to have a variety of powder options available to you is very wise and prudent. All the best, Michael
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Thanks guys, I didn't realize how serious the shortages are! It looks like Hodgdon and IMR are showing up on the shelves.
My current plan is to use either H4198/4895 based on availability and price. I found out my Loaddata subscription searches by powder and these work for the bigger cases. Some SR4759 for cast and mid range. A pound of Lil Gun forthe Hornet and the shelf has some IMR4227 and Trail Boss for the 32-20 still.
One question left, well two. Is this a sensible plan? I don't care about an extra 100 fps or missing stuff at 300 yards. Just want load and shoot alot while learning to cast and carry a few full loads in bear country while sneaking around.
Are either 4198 or 4895 better as consistent medium load performers suitable for heavy cast. I have read were some powder shine when the pressure is high, need heavy crimps, or magnum primers.
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You already have one of the best, IMR4227. It is all I use anymore for cast shooting in the 30's, 38-55, .32-40, 257 Roberts, .357 Mag and .44 special. And for jacketed in the .22K Hornet as well as full steam loads in the hand guns. It has shown fine accuracy in all the above. Makes things simple.
RD
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+1 on RL7
As for powders suitable for full charge jacketed loads in the .303 or similar, H4895 mentioned, IMR 4895 or 4064, RL15 or Varget all fill the bill. Whichever powder of this group you can get, there are no bad choices and they also work well
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Crap, I got almost nothing to add except: forget the Trail Boss, like Gary advised, and sub with 9 grains of SR4759 for the 32/20 rifle. Ric
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I know from first hand experience that Trail Boss can produce excellent accuracy. It's just more the exception than the rule it seems.
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I have had good luck going to a start load for jacketed when using cast. A cure all just go to all cast. Then load up with unique and 4895 as your pocket will allow you to buy stock. Those two may not be the best but they will give from excellent to good results in more cartridges than most will ever own with cast. Jeff
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Managed to dial in 32-20 WCF with 2400, I use 4227 in hornet. If you find a decent powder, just buy more than a single pound (4 and 8 pound jugs). :caution:
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Powder for rifle cast bullet shooting: My first choice is IMR 3031, second choice is Reloader 7.
If those two don't performe to my standards, then I move on to something else but those are the two I start with. Most offten, those two is where I end too. John R
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From a Canadian perspective and a cheap one, my vote would be for H110(maybe 'cause I haven't tried L'il Gun) and WC735 both from Higginson's with a big enough order to get the free shipping. I've had good luck with the H110 for cast loads up to 1500 or so in most of my rifles(not 45-70), and at $14/lb the WC735(close to 4895 speed) pretty well fills in for my other purposes. Grouch
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I'd watch 5744 closely. I got some several years back, (about 4 lbs.) and there were multiple loads/cartridges that this powder showed best, most consistent accuracy. I thought, after using it for a year or so, “well, lets get an 8 lb. container for continuity.” I did so, and it gave me nothing but trouble. The same loads that had been accurate, started spreading--badly--and the rifle(s) were very difficult to clean after as little as 5 rounds because of a hard deposit in the bore. I emailed the marketer, who answered promptly, and informed me that the loads I was using were too light. The ones he supplied me were definitely in a velocity spectrum that was above cast bullet velocities. His operative phrase was: “Well, I can't deny that we changed the powder, this new formulation by a Canadian manufacturer gives higher velocity with less pressure, and we're very happy with it.” He might have been happy with it; I sure wasn't. I also contacted Lyman, because they so highly recommended it, and they answered back and told me that they were using some 5744 that was several years old; they weren't aware that there had been a change. Just my experience, (as well as that of another highly experienced caster/competitor. As they say: YMMV.
Bill
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.
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From a Canadian perspective and a cheap one, my vote would be for H110(maybe 'cause I haven't tried L'il Gun) and WC735 both from Higginson's with a big enough order to get the free shipping. I've had good luck with the H110 for cast loads up to 1500 or so in most of my rifles(not 45-70), and at $14/lb the WC735(close to 4895 speed) pretty well fills in for my other purposes.
Grouch
Grouch, do you use fillers with 110? If not how much space is left by your loads?
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MCKG, My H110 loads leave a lot of space. I use them for most of my cast bullet loads when I'm not looking for high velocity. My offhand load for .257 Roberts is 10gr of H110 and a 90gr bullet(+/- 1"for 5 shots at 100yds), benchrest load in 30 30(15gr with bullets ranging from150 to 200gr for groups under 1” for 5 shots at 100yds) for 308/30 06/ 30 40Krag/.303Brit 16 to 18gr H110, works well in most of them. My 6.5X55 doesn't do well with the H110, but I think that's just a quirk of a particular rifle. The 6.5 does well with the WC845 that I have( a previous incarnation of the WC735, possibly a tiny bit slower), as do all the other rifles listed, and these loads can be quite light or pushed to 2000fps +. And no, I don't use fillers with any of my loads, because several trials have shown me worse accuracy with filler than without. Hope this helps. Grouch
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Well I figured I should update on how this worked out. I found a jug of H4895 and IMR4198 (would have preferred H4198 but really no big deal), 7#s of SR4759, and 2 each of Lil Gun, Trail Boss, and IMR4227. I considered everyones advice but supply issues and such help me decide on the above. I added my first bolt scoped rifle, a 223 CZ527, as well since then. After deciding to shoot jacketed in the Hornet and 223 Lil Gun shines in the Hornet, outstanding velocity at low pressure slightly reduced. For my main powders I chose the Australian ADI stuff for the reported temp. insensitivity, IMR4198 is an ADI product. I live and shoot from 90 degrees to negative way too much! I also chose extruded bulky powders and standardized on regular Winchester primers. This exercise helped me to understand better my shooting needs. I'm not a precision guy, reloading is not a hobby in itself, and cast bullets make a lot of sense for a guy in Canada who wants to shoot more and dream less. Load development works for a load and then I set my sights and shoot. For fun full power 444 is not needed and no longer meets the definition of fun! Taking a couple rifles to the range weekly and launching 50-100 rounds each is. Bullet making is more of a hobby. I don't want to start collecting molds and such. However fine tuning my own bullets appeals to me. I kept Trail Boss because I won't load a case with a powder amount less than half of a full case, it is a personal safety rule applied to all powders.
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I use Accurate 5744 (now called Lovex D060) which is made in the Czech Republic (same factory as Semtex!) I know that because I have actually been there to collect a bulk batch of powder for onward sale. I have not known of the powder being made elsewhere. I have found this Czech powder to be very consistent over the years.
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My vote goes to Hodgdon 322 its my go to powder as I don't floor the throttle on anything and its usable in most everything. Frank C.
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Dodgyrog, I just noticed your posting re:5744. I had been using it and was quite happy with it, so I bought an 8 lb. caddy. I found that with this new supply, accuracy had seriously degraded, and I now had a difficult problem with cleaning, due to powder fouling. I contacted the person at Accurate that is the point person for problem-solving, and he told me: "Yes, I can't deny that there has been a change; we now have a Canadian firm manufacturing the powder, and we're quite happy with it, because it gives more velocity with less pressure." Exactly what I didn't need. Further he stated: "Your pressures are too low, because you're not using heavy enough charges.” (I had already stated I was using cast bullets, not jacketed.) He then sent me some suggested loads, that were entirely unsuitable for my use, but would have probably been O.K. for jacketed bullets. So, where is the stuff really manufactured? It'sstill for sale under the same brand mame/number. Meanwhile, I've got a quantity useless for my purposes. Bill
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.
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After reading threads like this I thank my lucky stars that I have enough 4759 stashed away to last me well into my dotage. It was the the powder that gave me the most universally good results with cast bullets in medium capacity cases, ever. For hunting loads up to and including .30-06, I too am a big believer in H-4895.
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