Well, I have always used GOEX black powder with good results & never really researched the difference between brands. Just out of curiosity what is the big difference between GOEX & SWISS made black powder? More consistent burn rate? Cleanliness ? Granular uniformity?:thinking:
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Well for one thing over 10.00 a can more. I found out here where humidity is low the fowling becomes rock hard with Swiss. That is why every top shooter now wipes his barrel betqween shots. The GOEX OLDE EINSFORD 1.5 they have come out with is only a buck a can more than standard GOEX and works great.
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Swiss burns hotter, faster, and cleaner. It's hard to beat. Just look at what the competition shooters use.
Cheers from New Zealand
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More consistent burn rate? Cleanliness ? Granular uniformity?:thinking:
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Dittos ” ” for what rmrix said.
Yes fouling gets hard when it's dry but that is rare in eastern VA. And you can swab if on the range and with PRB really does not make a difference.
Swiss is 1st and all others are second best when it comes to “repeatable accuracy".
Except... If you are shooting muskets with minnies or smooth bore guns or handguns no advantage to Swiss but if a rifle and accuracy counts it's best.
I don't have a rocklock but some of the guys that do say no advantage in them to using Swiss, so we're talking cap, bpcr and inlines.
Others may have different results and opinions. GN
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I found out here where humidity is low the fowling becomes rock hard with Swiss. That is why every top shooter now wipes his barrel betqween shots.
Not wanting to pick nits - I'll just make this point.
It is true wiping is a must with any BP while shooting a match under the hot direct summer sun or other similar conditions. This hard fouling is not limited to Swiss but all BP when match shooting or in other words, when a high rate of rounds are fired in a finite time in hot air.
To be fair, The blow tube is used to good effect and by a lot of the (top??:)) competitors in state and NRA national matches.
In the context of shooting year round, only a small percent of my shots get wiped for fouling control. I blow tube the rest of the time.
One of the drawbacks of wiping is the wear pattern and eventual loss of match accuracy the wiping rod imparts on the interior of the bore just ahead of the chamber. The progression of this damage has been tracked through use of Hawk-eye bore-scopes.
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I used Goex Cartridge in my Shiloh 45x2.4 Sharps when shooting long range BPCR gong matches and three position NRA midrange for several years. It shot very well in my rifle during that time. To the tune of actually making amazing groups on steel and paper from 200-1000 yds. Both with grease groove and PP. Won some, lost some.
Fouling management was either just blow tubing or blowing and a dry patch or one wet patch and one dry, depending on the conditions at the time.
I did try Swiss and found that the fouling was much harder than the Goex Cartridge. This was very evident when cleaning cases in a solution of vinegar and water. As far as which one is better, I could never tell the difference, except for the harder fouling with the Swiss. The goex would shoot and work just as well as the Swiss. Could never
justify the extra cost.
And, yes, I read the tech sheets too. But I have often wondered how many shooters use something just because some people win with it. For me, I try to find what works best for me irregardless of what the conventional thinking is.
I believe that when shooting the BPCR, there are two great controlling factors for success. They are fouling management and the shooters marksmanship at any given time under the prevailing conditions.
I see that Goex Cartridge has been discontinued so guess I should get motivated again and try the new Goex powder.
Just my experience and opinion. They are worth exactly what you paid.
RD
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RD,
Empirical data is worth more than tons of theory. Nobel Prize winner for theoretical physics Neils Bohr said that there was only a 10% chance that scientist could make a uranium chain reaction in 50 years in 1939. Enrico Fermi ran pile one in 1942.
Ric
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RD,
Empirical data is worth more than tons of theory. Nobel Prize winner for theoretical physics Neils Bohr said that there was only a 10% chance that scientist could make a uranium chain reaction in 50 years in 1939. Enrico Fermi ran pile one in 1942.
Ric I understand the words and sentences but I must be a little thick just now. Please explain your point - thanks! Michael Rix
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Ok guys! Was just curious about various powders propelling round balls of lead down range . Not trying to build a piano. LOL
PAT
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Sorry Michael.
Guess that was a little off side, for the question. Someone with really life experience doing things has a lot of respect from my perspective. I want advice from the man who has done it, like RD with black powder in cartridges. It doesn't matter if others tell you this or that will not work. Until you try to do it you will never really know.
Pat,
All of my recent experience has been with round balls sparked by flint. I've shot original DuPont, Swiss, Schutzen and Goex. On any given day I can't see any difference in any of them. It must be advertising.
Ric
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OK Ric, I get the real experience part. I like Swiss because it turns out to be cheaper for me. I can go into all the ways some other topic if you like.
For experience, I shoot BPCR a lot. I have placed 1st, 2nd and 7th in world Creedmoor championship matches that I have shot in. 2002, 2004 and 2006 respectfully. Won the NRA national creedmoor championship in 2009 at Raton. Placed third about a dozen years ago. I have won the Arizona state silhouette championship 4 times and Colorado twice. I dreamed up and put on the American Creedmoor Cup championships (the most demanding long range BPCR match in this country) and have placed third the last three years in a row. Just can't seem to place higher???
I know a little about this and would not waste my time on Swiss shooting round balls. I misunderstood the scope of what you were asking for - sorry Pigslayer
Forgive my boast above - I try to read and listen and pick up what ever I can from whom ever I can. I've also been a few places and done a few things in the Black Powder world. Respectfully, Michael Rix
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Michael,
Damage to chamber with a wiping rod:
Have you tried the delrin, very soft and flexible, wiping rod offered by Arizona Sharpshooters?
http://arizonasharpshooters.com/1794.html
Might not impart the damage to the chamber that a traditional steel rod would. I've been using one for 3-years and my friend's bore scope sees no detrimental effects.
Tom
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I guess that when starting this thread I should have worded my question differently. The question should have read: Would the use of Swiss powder over Goex make any difference in accuracy in my flinters? Sorry about the confusion.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Michael,
Damage to chamber with a wiping rod:
Have you tried the delrin, very soft and flexible, wiping rod offered by Arizona Sharpshooters?
Might not impart the damage to the chamber that a traditional steel rod would. I've been using one for 3-years and my friend's bore scope sees no detrimental effects.
TomYes, I have. We almost to a man use the delrin rods. Steve Rhoades made one for me years ago before he was selling them and I thanked him on the old shooters.com and he got 50 + requests to make and sell them. That is how he got going on it. These nylon (delrin )rods are OK but are the wiping rods that are doing the damage over many hundreds of wipes. It might be that the thinner - stiffer Dewy Rods could do the same wiping with out rubbing the inside of the barrel - or at least as much. The problem with the delrin is its flex. Try as you will, grit finds its way onto the rod and with enough shots and wiping a ware pattern shows up.
The blow tube works with out any of these issues and barrels last longer than I can predict. However, there are days you just can not shoot the blow tube.
Michael Rix
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Thanks, Michael!
Excellent food for thought.
My Dewey rod has two short (3” long) pieces of nylon “forced” onto the rod, at the 1/3 and 2/3 locations to serve as “permanent” bore guides. So maybe that would be better than the delrin? Don't mind the blowing if it is a better way to go.
Back to brands of BP.....on the fence now between Swiss 1 1/2 and KIK 2 f. But am now trying to find some Swiss 1f to try. It's a .40-70 ss with a 420- grain PJ Money bullet, 16:1 with a 1:16 twist. 68 of the 1 1/2 is about 1323 fps.
I really like the BPCR NRA silhouette game!
Tom
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A 3/8” delrin rod to wipe.
And a ball bearing SS rod with a drilled out cartridge case on the rear for a chamber guide. Shrink tube on the other end behind the jag as a bore guide and to prevent the rod from falling down on the bore at the muzzle end when the jag exits.
RD
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Pigslayer; woud Swiss do better than GOEX in your flinter, you asked. Only your flinter knows and it won't tell you untill you actuaaly shoot the two different powders and allow your flinter to show you. Sorry about the non-simple answer but really, only your flinter knows.
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