I got lucky on another GunBroker auction and picked up a 1914 date of manufacture Colt New Service in .455 Eley. Looks like it will be a great shooter and I look forward to a range trip when the wind dies down, the snow melts and the temperature is above freeezing.
Who else here has a New Service Colt? What caliber? What do you shoot in yours?
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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The ability to appreciate historic and unique firearms is the sign of a mature individual. Mostly.
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Got lucky on this GunBroker auction. A 1922 Colt New Service .44-40 with 4-1/2" barrel and lanyard loop. Zero end shake with empty brass in chambers. Cylinder gap 0.008 pass/0.009 hold. Timing and indexing correct, with crisp trigger pulls and smooth DA. Cylinder throats .429 and uniform, barrel groove diameter slugs .427".
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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New Service; .45 Colt, 7 1/2 barrel, standard commercial model. Later production with the flexible firing pin. My father was in the USMC headed for the South Pacific and wanted more security. He bought it from a retired South Dakota City Marshall living in Rock Island, Illinois and then bought a full-flap holster in Oceanside, California.
The load is 6.5 grains Unique, 200 grain H&G semi-wadcutter, a good load for both the New Service and the Colt SAA. This load was effective enough to kill dogs running the sows with pigs and a groundhog in the yard.
This revolver has a history:
The pistol was manufactured in 1915.
The Marshall carved an Easter Bunny with Easter Basket in the left hand grip.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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I watched this 1923 vintage New Service 7 1/2" 38 w.c.f. sit on a table at several gun shows and the price kept dropping. A few weeks ago I saw it again only now the ivory grips had been replaced with after market plastic ones and the price reduced some more. I looked it over pretty carefully and was delighted with the condition of the bore. I did some horse trading and a little boot and the seller threw in the ivory grips too.
I have only shot it about 20 rounds but this one seems to shoot right to the tip of the front sight at 20 yards with 5.5 grains of Trail Boss and the Magma 180 sized to .402". I pin gauged the throats at .401" with a skosh of wiggle but the .402" pin won't quite enter the uncleaned cylinder.
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45 Colt (USN), 45 Colt Target, 357 Magnum (ex NYSP), 38 Special (ex 455 UK bringback), 44 Russian/Special (3) one factory nickel, 2 target models.
2 44 Russian/Special targets.
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Early M1917 Colt .45 ACP revolvers used leftover .455 Eley cylinders from the British order, simply facing them off at the rear to provide clip clearance. Mine SN 1618XX (DOM 1918) is one of those. Once the supply of .455 cylinders were used up, cylinders for the remainder of US Army orders were purpose-built for .45 ACP having the appropriate stop surface in the chambers to that loose .45 ACP ammunition could be fired without using the clips. Revolvers which were refurbed for WW2 service commonly had cylinders replaced, and often barrels as well. WW2 replacement barrels were a heavier contour as used on commercial New Service revolvers in the 1930s.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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My lastest, a 1933 4-inch .38 Special. Cylinder gap is 0.005" pass / 0.006" hold. Zero end-shake with empty brass in chambers.
Timing correct, bright, crisp bore. Weighs 41 ounces. Can't wait to get it to the range. Factory letter has been ordered.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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-1-1.jpg?width=20 "Slugflinger")
Some data taken recently follows:
Peters 38-40 180 gr JSP Index 3856 from 1962-68 in New Service (1923) 859 mean, ES 74 for 5 rounds.
Remington 39-40 180 gr JSP Index 8138 from 1961 in NS 822 avg ES 121 for 5 rounds
Reload 180 gr 401043 7.7 gr Unique in Rem-UMC balloon head cases 829 mean 69 ES for 4 rounds.
Reload 180 gr hard cast Ga Arms bullet 7.2 grs Unique in mixed modern brass 883 mean ES 101 for 5 rounds.
Some loads fired in Ruger NMBH
Reload 180 hard cast 7.2 grs Unique modern brass 1001 mean ES 69 for 4 rds
Peters 180 JSP 2 rds 886 fps (both)
Remington 180 JSP 1 round 854 fps
Dating for the Rem/Peters ammo above was from photos from International Ammunition Association reference articles. Both Remington and Peters headstamps are R_P and the Peters brass appears to have a slight balloon head configuration while the Remington is similar to the modern brass I have. Advertised velocities listed in several Stoeger's catalogs going back to 1947 show 1310 to 1330 fps for rifle and 975 to 985 for revolver in 1947, to 775 fps in 1966 for both brands Western velocities for the ammo chronographed earlier are similar.
Am working on getting some photos of boxes and New Service when I learn the ropes.
For Dukem, just know that I filed down the front sight on mine probably 40 or 50 years ago and didn't think a thing about it in my ignorance.
Al
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38-40 New Service with original grips and S. D. Myers holster
US Cartridge Co probably from 1920's 180? gr lead using LESMOK powder
Peters 3840 180 JSP
Western 180 gr JSP from 60''s
Rem 3840 180 JSP from 1961
New service front sight as filed down years ago - works with most of the reloads I have used.
Hope these first efforts are OK - still have several things to work out navigating the process.
Al
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I have enjoyed reading all the post here. The New Service I am shooting is a 44-40 made in 1915. I have come to really appreciate this cartridge in rifles and wanted to have a revolver but prefer double action Colts to the single action. For those that want to know the details the cylinder throats allow and 0.429 bulletin to just pass on two of the chambers and hold on the other four. Barrel is 0.4275 and the cylinder gap 0.007. Winter has prevented getting to the range and casting until this month. I had a box of commercial 225 grain 0.429 cast given to me. I have shot a few of these with 5.0 grains of Bullseye. The accuracy was less than I thought the old Colt could do and I suspect the bullets and lube are too hard. A new Accurate mold casting a 205 grain is here and this has now become the summers project. Given the age of the Colt and the fixed sights I will stay with the level one loads and bullseye and 231. Just a not to other shooting the 44-40 I have searched a number of references on loading the 44-40 and find the a number of authors in the main line print list hotter loading for the cartrige that are likely more in line with Lymans level two firearms.
Again for all those posting on these old cartridges I have enjoy the comments. I find these much more interesting than any of the newer cartridges. While I might not be shooting the same cartridge it is always possible to learn from the experiences of others.
Keith DVM
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I concur about the romance and nostalgia of the old revolvers. Shooting the New Service brings the nostalgia of my teen years on the farm a time long ago and a land far away. My father killed a full-tilt running Doberman at eighty yards with 6.5 grains Unique and the H&G 200 grain semi-wadcutter,
I do not need loads any more powerful. After discussion with Ric Bowman at a Puyallup match, I am sticking with 6.5 grains Unique and a 200 grain H&G semi-wadcutter, or the 235 grain SAECO 954, for the New Service, Schofield, and Colt SAA, Second Generation.
One aspect of these revolvers is the knife blade and gutter sights. There is a annual match honoring Elmer Keith south of Spokane. The targets are set at 140, 200, 265 and 650 yards. The competition is fierce, but friendly. Guns are restricted to iron sights, 10 1/2 inch barrels or less, and only iron sights. Ten shots at any target, you get a choice. The smaller and farther targets score higher. It will be a challenge to shoot this match with the New Service and the SAA. The knife blade and gutter sights would be more in line with the early days of Elmer Keith.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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Just scored 2 more !!!!!. A commercial 455 and a 44-40.
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My Colt new service has been around the block. It went across the pond in .455 Eley during World war one. Then it came back over the pond to be converted to .45 long colt. Then someone gave it the easy to spot in the woods nickel finish and coarse checkered grips. Somewhere along the line somebody who knew what they were doing gave it a terrific trigger job. That along with a great bore and tight action make it a testament to what a revolver should be. one of my favorites to take to the range.
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Finally had a chance to shoot the gun. WRA 200-grain softpoint in balloon-head cases with Sharpshooter powder gave 824 fps and groups in ten and X-ring of a B8 repair center at 25 yards with 6:00 hold. My handloads with Accurate 43-230G and 18.5 grains of IMR4227 are 830 fps and slightly higher point of impact, but all high in ten ring. Adequate packing pistol.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Tonight I got the Shooting Master to the range for the first time. I had 38 rounds left in this box of .38 Special, Hornady 148 grain HBWCs on top of 3.0 grains of Bullseye. The Colt is a BIG gun so I shot 2 handed, and single action since I have small hands. Yeah, I yanked one. My POA was at 6:00 on the bull.
The SA pull is about 3 lbs. (that's a SWAG) with no takeup, creep, and almost no over travel. It's the proverbial "glass rod" trigger.
Aside from the midrange loads I also ran a couple cylinders of 178 grain Keiths on top of 5.3 grains of Unique, which is a .38 +P load. They were accurate as well. (The Keith bullet is the Matt's Bullets version of the 358429, sized to .359. It's proven to be very accurate in my other revolvers.)
For comparison I also brought my 4" S&W Model 28-2, which wears a set of Herrett's Shooting Stars. It's more comfortable to shoot with heavy loads due to the stocks and the DA pull is much better.
Anyway, I'm very happy with the Colt and look forward to shooting it at longer range.
--- Dave Markowitz
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My understanding is that Lyman is being very cautious with load data which they are unable to pressure test. Much of the older data would exceed SAAMI MAP, and was developed using subjective pressure signs which are now deemed unreliable. The publishers of today's loading manuals are more concerned with ensuring safe loads than seeing how large a velocity number they can get. They must also tailor the loads for the weakest gun they might be used in. I think that your 7.7 of Unique is probaby fine in a 1923 New Service, but not in a black powder frame Colt Frontier Six Shooter.
A practice I have used successfully is to measure the velocity of factory loads in the gun, several different batches, including "vintage" ammo when obtainable. Often I have purchased partial boxes of pre-WW2 ammo just for the purpose of testing them, using that data to benchmark what my handloads should do. In calibers like the .32-20 and .44-40 I have found this method produces useful results. I would surmise the .38-40 would do likewise.
If unable to test .38-40 factory ammo, I would shoot for comparison a full-charge black powder load using good quality powder, with light compression and a suitable bullet of correct hardness, weight and diameter. Hopefully DukeM will chime in here and provide a more learned comment on your load, but I believe my judgement to be correct.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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The .455 Colt and the .455 Eley were commercial loads assembled with 265-grain lead hollow-based bullet in the longer 0.86" Mk1 type case, versus the shorter 0.76" case used in most British, Cdn. and ANZAC service loads.
A good reference is: http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=introduction-to-455-cartridges
Canadian Army officers, like their British counterparts, purchased sidearms at their own expense. The only stipulation was that commercial pistols had to be able to use issue service ammunition. Both the British and Canadian governments also purchased pistols for issue as needed to other ranks. Most of the .455 revolvers still available in the US came across from the Canadian surplus market, and unlike most of the .455 revolvers imported into the US before 1968 that were shaved to fire .45 ACP cartridges, the Canadian examples are usually still unaltered and being chambered in their original .455 caliber.
My New Service is one of those.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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According to Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers (1935) revolver loads for the .38-40 produced 950 fps from a 5-1/2" barrel at a maximum pressure of 14,000 c.u.p. using 16 grains of Sharpshooter, 14 grains of S.R. No. 80 or 33 grains of King's Semi Smokeless.
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) on p. 261 lists 5.4 grains of Bullseye as an "accuracy load" with RCBS #40-180CM for 898 fps at 12,400 psi. Velocities in 7-1/2" barrel.
Also listed are are 5.5 grains of TiteGroup for 893 fps at 11,700 psi,
6.0 grains of Trailboss for 794 fps at 10,500 psi,
or 7.2 grains of Unique for 897 fps at 11,100 psi,
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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I think that will solve every "wolf at the door" problem anyone ever has.
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Best load so far in the .455 Eley Colt New Service. Detailed doc'ed on the target. This load is fine in the Colt New Service, but I would NOT try it in a hinged-top Webley!
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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