WHO OWNS IT WHEN?

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  • Last Post 15 May 2022
joeb33050 posted this 09 May 2022

If I buy a blivit from you, through the mail;

send you the $, you get the $,

you send the blivit to me, I get the  blivit,

when do I own the blivit?

 

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Lee Guthrie posted this 09 May 2022

FOB  ???

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RicinYakima posted this 09 May 2022

 

or bliv·et noun Slang. something annoying, ridiculous, or useless. something for which one cannot find a word; something difficult to name. an unpleasant or unsolvable situation or problem.


Blivit Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

 

You never own it, it owns you. 

https://www.dictionary.com › browse › blivit  

 

 

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JeffinNZ posted this 09 May 2022

You're speaking in riddles Joe.  

Cheers from New Zealand

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John Alexander posted this 09 May 2022

FOB would be the key question if it wasn't a blivit, but since it is a blivit, nobody wants to own the thing.

When we get this cleared up I would like to know where the "of" after couple went and why we don't shoot at anything anymore but instead  "engage it"?

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JimmyDee posted this 10 May 2022

The UCC says title usually passes when the seller fulfills delivery obligations -- usually when it's handed to USPS, UPS, FedEx, &c. or it's delivered to your place by his truck, wagon, courier, &c.

Risk of loss, if not otherwise stated, usually transfers with title -- but it doesn't have to.  For most sales, this means the buyer has to make any claim to the delivery agent to recover losses.

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RicinYakima posted this 10 May 2022

"why we don't shoot at anything anymore but instead  "engage it"?"

Social discord has romanticized SWAT and military actions. Shooting used to be about recreation and hunting, not anymore.

I blame 40 years of video games and the news media.

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joeb33050 posted this 10 May 2022

The UCC says title usually passes when the seller fulfills delivery obligations -- usually when it's handed to USPS, UPS, FedEx, &c. or it's delivered to your place by his truck, wagon, courier, &c.

Then, is it true that if I buy a rifle from you, through the mail, send you the $, you get the $, you send me/my FFL the insured rifle via USPS, and it never arrives; then it's not clear who owns the missing rifle? I have no USPS receipt, no proof of the value of the lost rifle. Do I just go to USPS and ask for my $ back?

It seems to me that we should know HOW to perform this sort of transaction, "correctly". I have bought/sold guns through USPS dozens of times with nary a hitch; but.... Should the seller photograph the gun? Send photos to buyer? What proof of value does USPS require? I suppose that it only matters when the gun doesn't arrive. Riddle? 

    

 

 

Risk of loss, if not otherwise stated, usually transfers with title -- but it doesn't have to.  For most sales, this means the buyer has to make any claim to the delivery agent to recover losses.

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JimmyDee posted this 10 May 2022

(Ah, a missing firearm.  Who could have guessed?)

There are two intermediaries between the seller and buyer: USPS and a receiving FFL.  I suspect that title does not transfer before the government says it's okay for you to posses the firearm.  (I'm curious about transfer of title in cases like this.  Any help?)  Risk probably transfers when the seller hands it to the USPS.

Insurance covers loss or damage during transit; this is typically paid for by the seller on the buyers behalf according to the buyer's instructions.  Or the terms of the sale may require the buyer to pay for insurance.  The buyer has insurable risk even though the buyer may not own the firearm before the receiving FFL transfers it.

The declared value determines the cost of the coverage.  All the details (seller, buyer, value of the goods, consignee, ship date, insurance) can be documented -- and must be in case anything "goes wrong."

Sounds good, right?  Well, when things "go wrong," the USPS acts like an insurance company and will probably offer half of the covered value to settle any claim.  You have to fight to get more.  (Personal experience.) 

Sounds bad, right?  Well, the USPS gets very excited when a firearm shipped by a FFL goes missing. (More personal experience.)

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Lee Guthrie posted this 10 May 2022

Don't suppose anyone knows a good lawyer??

There is "equitable" ownership and there is "legal" ownership.  In the case of firearms (that require background check) upon payment by the buyer the equitable ownership passes to the buyer.  The question is legal ownership at that point, because the buyer has not completed background check, the seller has given up possession and transferred possession to one or more FFLs.  The FFLs very likely have status as bailee of the property.

Risk of loss?  Common law and earlier uniform codified laws were sometimes as clear as mud.  Currently, the following will probably give some answer:

  • ·        DELETED  DELETED

  • The citations were deleted.  I did a quick copy and paste from WestLaw without reading the end result.  What I copied from were links which would have taken me to those articles, but upon pasting the links were not transferred.  I would suggest White & Summers on the Uniform Commercial Code as a starting point.

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358156hp posted this 15 May 2022

The carriers contract for delivery is with the shipper, unless the buyer is the one who made the shipping and delivery arrangements, and paid them directly for their service. Ask the carrier who failed to deliver the item who they are responsible to for the item. I have seen some shippers on GunBroker toss in the condition that non-delivery is between the receiver and the shipping company. This is usually found under the tab that contains "additional terms of sale". I do not buy anything from people who do that because shipping companies will generally not discuss a legal issue with anyone but the shipper, whom the they have their service agreement with.

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