ROA 45 ACP Conversion Cylinder and Black Powder

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  • Last Post 09 August 2023
Aaron posted this 08 July 2023

Today I had one of those "I wonder" moments on the reloading bench. I got to wondering if the Eras Gone Kerr 44 bullet would work in the 45 ACP case for the Howell ROA Conversion Cylinder. Before I allowed myself to study all the "what's the point" arguments, I measured the base of the bullet to see what the seating depth would be on top of black powder. Basically I filled the case to within .350" with FFFG black powder, seated a .020" wax milk container cookie on top, and seated a cast (.452) Kerr bullet into the case with a press fit. The Kerr bullet had been previously lubricated on the bottom half with homemade Confederate Lube. I applied a standard 45 ACP taper crimp onto the bullet and there it was - all done. Now granted, the whopping 14 grains of FFFG black powder won't set any speed records, but heck, it loads up OK and should be a nice pleasant load to shoot through the ROA/Conversion Cylinder. The overall cartridge length comes out to 1.2" total.

Before I knew it, I had 6 loaded up and ready for a test. I then began to wonder the "why" of the matter and truthfully admit that smokeless is the way to roll with the 45 ACP cartridge. But heck, it's nice to know that the Eras Gone Kerr bullet can work in this cartridge/cylinder version in a pinch.

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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linoww posted this 08 July 2023

I'm curious what the point of impact will be with these. keep us posted!

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Aaron posted this 08 July 2023

I'm curious what the point of impact will be with these. keep us posted!

What range ya want? 15 or 25 yards?

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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linoww posted this 08 July 2023

mine all hit 6" high at 25 yards with rear sight buried.both 45 acp and 45 colt cylinders. 15 or 25 whatever works, I'm just curious.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Aaron posted this 09 July 2023

mine all hit 6" high at 25 yards with rear sight buried.both 45 acp and 45 colt cylinders. 15 or 25 whatever works, I'm just curious.

If the weather holds (no storms), I will shoot them tomorrow..

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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linoww posted this 09 July 2023

thanks, I'll be shooting mine tomorrow also.

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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MP1886 posted this 09 July 2023

I've owned quite a few ROA's and none of them had the correct front sight on them.........talking about the height.  Always has to order another from Ruger.  I wondered about the cartridge cylinder conversion and where it would place it's shot, but then again I shoot all conical bullets from my ROA so as long as the velocities are pretty close between the cartridge load and percussion capped cylinder load they should be pretty close to one another. 

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Aaron posted this 09 July 2023

The 14gr FFFG load with the Eras Gone Kerr conical in the 45 ACP brass shot surprisingly brisk. It was no slouch. Impact was 6" high at 25 yards.

The 230gr RNL over 5.5gr of True Blue shot, 8" high at 25 yards.

Targets are below.

14gr. FFFG and Kerr Bullet. POA is red dot.

5.5gr of True Blue with 230gr RNL. POA is bottom of ruler.

Target was spun 180 degrees between different bullets. FUN!

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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linoww posted this 09 July 2023

not bad at all! .thanks for the pics. I shot the $100 cruddy old army today with a sewer pipe bore for the first time.I shot RB and felt wad with FFF Goex to see how bad it would foul.To my surprise I shot 6 cylinders and was smacking the 6" 25 yard gong offhand easily.The bore seems just as dark and pitted as I started but didn't get worse.Thre is hope.Next time I'll throw it on paper. My three other ROA revolvers hit to the sights elevation wise with RB loads, its the conversion cylinders that hit high.It looks like yours is similar. I've owned three others in the past and IIRC all hit pretty close with RB.

 

here is a muzzle pic to show how dark the bore is

the forcing cone is worse and looks sandblasted.

 

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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MP1886 posted this 10 July 2023

Since you fellows are putting groups up I thought I'd post one with my Pietta 1860.  I apologize for the informal target as it's a Macaroni box. I set it up at 30 yards. That's six shots in that big center hole which is about an inch. The other holes you can were shot from the other side developing a load.  My ROA will out shoot it.  

 

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linoww posted this 11 July 2023

I ran out of food boxes but this is typical old army accuracy with pyrodex P.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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MP1886 posted this 11 July 2023

My Old Army is so accruate I don't shooting it much anymore, it's boring. I guess I should have piled six more bullets in that macaroni box!!!  You have to admit that 1860 Colt isn't too shabby especially the crude sights on them. 

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Aaron posted this 11 July 2023

I shot the $100 cruddy old army today with a sewer pipe bore for the first time.I shot RB and felt wad with FFF Goex to see how bad it would foul.To my surprise I shot 6 cylinders and was smacking the 6" 25 yard gong offhand easily.The bore seems just as dark and pitted as I started but didn't get worse.

It seems to me the BP firearms, especially the very old ones with "cruddy" bores, shoot exceptionally well with BP and lead ball given their rough bore condition. Were they modern guns with jacketed bullets and smokeless cartridges, they would belong to the 20 MOA class!

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Aaron posted this 11 July 2023

Yup. They are accurate. Not so much with conversion cylinders however.

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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linoww posted this 11 July 2023

When I got the Ruger, I was thinking originally of converting it to 36.. But after shooting it. I think I will leave it as is.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 12 July 2023

My Old Army is so accruate I don't shooting it much anymore, it's boring. . 

I know what you mean. My sporter 1903 shoots 20 shot .25" groups with plainbase pure lead cast bullets at 4500 fps at 200 yards.I intentionally load inaccurate ammo for matches to give others a chance. One day I will put a scope on it to see how good it really shoots! Right now there is No rear site just a front blade. And it's held in the stock with electrical tape as I can't find the action screws!

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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RicinYakima posted this 12 July 2023

Just because dope is legal in WA, doesn't mean you have to smoke it 24 hours a day! 

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linoww posted this 12 July 2023

Just because dope is legal in WA, doesn't mean you have to smoke it 24 hours a day! 

hehehe...

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Aaron posted this 12 July 2023

It dawned on me yesterday that I have a Lee 450-200-1R mold. I cast a few and think it is a much better bullet for the 45 ACP case in the conversion cylinder. It has a full diameter, and shorter shank than the Eras Gone Kerr bullet. I will load up some of these to test and see if they group better than the Kerr bullets. I will be able to get more FFFG in the case as well. I am going to bet that these shoot better groups than the Kerr in the 45 ACP conversion cylinder for the ROA.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Aaron posted this 12 July 2023

Just because dope is legal in WA, doesn't mean you have to smoke it 24 hours a day! 

I watched a documentary on marijuana last month. Having done that, I will watch all future documentaries while smoking marijuana. cool

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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linoww posted this 12 July 2023

The cylinder Throats on my 45 Colt Howells and my ACP Kirst are all .452. Last night I sized up a bunch of HG #46 to shoot in them this weekend.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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MP1886 posted this 12 July 2023

My Old Army is so accruate I don't shooting it much anymore, it's boring. . 

I know what you mean. My sporter 1903 shoots 20 shot .25" groups with plainbase pure lead cast bullets at 4500 fps at 200 yards.I intentionally load inaccurate ammo for matches to give others a chance. One day I will put a scope on it to see how good it really shoots! Right now there is No rear site just a front blade. And it's held in the stock with electrical tape as I can't find the action screws!
See, you don't get it.  Feel better now?

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linoww posted this 13 July 2023

This is the little HG 46.its their 45 Auto Rim bullet like the 452423. when loading in the 45 Colt Conversion I have to crimp over the shoulder as the OAL is limited with that cylinder. The Cowboy Special brass being short is no issue of course.

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 13 July 2023

I found a box of 45 ACP I'd loaded for a Smith 25 so I ran them in cruddy bore old army with the Kirst at 50' indoors. two 20 shot groups. The Lyman 452423 sized .451 with Rooster liquid jacket and the other the HG 46 sized. 452 lubed with Fryxell lube.Both loaded with 5g Unique. It took a couple shots to catch paper and figure where to hold as they were shooting about 8" high over the target. Groups were "blah" but the good news was no accumulated lead after 50 shots. Pic of the sandblasted throat included.

 

 

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 09 August 2023

 just got this 11" bull barrel ROA yesterday(bottom.gun of course)and installed the Kirst ACP cylinder.Im excited to see how it does.The HG 46 shot well in my others but still had a high POI. 

It's a heavy pig! 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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