Rifle brass quality

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  • Last Post 25 April 2018
R. Dupraz posted this 22 April 2018

Does high end brass, such as Norma or Lapua, etc, really make a difference in accuracy and is it worth the extra cost?

 

R. 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 April 2018

my jb benchrest friends tell me it doesn't cost more ... for their purposes they throw away less brass ..... and it saves time in prepping it to the uniformity they require ....

they mention that occasionally winchester has a good run of brass that they can prep to their needs ...

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in my own experience as a production varmint rifle shooter i believe that sorted, more consistent brass gives me slightly better groups with mj bullets.... a matter of a few more smaller groups.  maybe going from 0.9 groups to 0.8 groups kinda thing .  so yes, better brass is slightly more accurate ....( g ) .

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with our soft lead cast bullets that live and die from being launched straight down the tube, one could guess that brass uniformity ( and concentric necks ) might be even more important than with jb shooting .  it would be interesting to have a rifle accurate enough, and enough lead and time ,  to play with intentionally bad brass .

ken

 

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3Lakes posted this 22 April 2018

I believe that it does if you have a fine target rifle with a tight neck. Since I have only shot Lapua in my 6 ppc and 30 BR, I don't have a comparison to other brass.  Most all NBRSA shooters all use Lapua for jacketed competitions. I had to start with 220 Russian brass and 6 BR brass for these two cartridges.

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RicinYakima posted this 22 April 2018

RD,

In my opinion and experience, it does unless you are willing to prep your cases and have dies made for your rifle. For 30/06 I have three sets of dies (one Redding, one RCBS and one Micro-precision) that cover my needs if I first straighten the cases in a Wilson full length sizer, square the case head and neck turn. Then I do the minor stuff to them. Most cases will be fine, but Winchester and FA Match seem to be the best. I have been shooting the same batch, now 92 cases, of W-W for 25 years with cast bullets and they are still fine after at least 60 reloadings.

Then I have a Finn Model 28/30 made on a SIG action. I have always used Lapua brass because I got them on sale 15 years ago for less than $50 a hundred. My Redding die set makes as concentric of ammo with these as my much slaved over 30/06 setup. The rifle shoots really good, but with open barrel sights I just can't see well enough to shoot matches with it.

I guess the answer is you can invest time and material, or greenbacks. You can take your choice.

Ric

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OU812 posted this 22 April 2018

When full length resizing David Tubb says most concentric brass is good brass. Brass that is less concentric will stretch more on thin side of case. 

My NECO case runout gauge says new Lapua brass is very good. My older lot of Winchester is pretty good. My older lot of Remington 223 the worst.

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Pentz posted this 22 April 2018

Sig action??? Finns and Swiss did not make actions. Must be the barrel.

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Bud Hyett posted this 22 April 2018

The way to getting better accuracy is to eliminate flyers and consistent brass is one more step on the way. While there are many brands of more costly brass, the "high-priced" brass is not necessarily consistent. My experience is consistent neck tension is needed for accuracy,. The resistance of the bullet for a slight microsecond as combustion starts helps to assure consistent powder ignition. 

Trimming for length, turning necks and weighing cases has shown me Lapua brass is the most consistent. I have spent several afternoons turning Lapua case necks and not drawing any brass off, only cleaning the dirt off the outside case. Therefore, I quit working the Lapua cases other than deburring the inside and outside of the neck. Norma and Hornady are not premium brass, only high-priced brass as they require the same trimming and turning work as Federal, R-P and W-W

I hate to pay a high price for brass that I need to do the same rework as the lower priced brass. Lapua brass is the most consistent and I will pay a higher price for it. Federal, Remington-Peters and Winchester-Western brass in chance lots can be consistent, but often needs case neck turning to enable consistent bushing sizing die usage. I have too much brass now to buy any more. Were I to need more brass, the first choice will be Lapua and then the more common brands.

 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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RicinYakima posted this 22 April 2018

You are correct, the barrel is made by SIG. From the Finnish Area; 

 The serial numbers of the new rifle were to begin at 1 and be sequential after that. The initial production series was set at the factory to be in lots of approximately 10,000 rifles. The first series of production was ready for delivery by August of 1928. The second series of rifles in the production schedule was begun and it was delivered to the Civil Guard from November of 1928 to June of 1929. This second series of rifles was serial numbered 10,001-20,100. These first two series of rifles utilized the entire barrel contract from the Swiss firm SIG.

  The second variation SIG marking is the most common found on the m/28 series rifles. These markings include the Civil Guard designation of SY and the ammunition type/chamber diameter marking of “D” on the top center of the barrel which was added later by the army. The contract stipulated that the barrel serial number would be located just above the wood line and visible on the barrels left side when the rifle was pointed down range. The serial number on these SIG barrels is preceded with a small “o” as discussed above. The right side of the barrel is to be marked with the district identification number of the Civil Guard district it was issued to. This serial number was preceded with a capital “S”.

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John Carlson posted this 23 April 2018

Some years back I bought 1000 Lake City brass for a Savage 223 target rifle.  I also bought 100 Lapua brass for the same rifle.  After sorting I had six 100 round batches of the Lake City brass that were more consistent both in weight and neck wall thickness than were the Lapua brass and they shot better.    I haven't bought any premium brass for the 30-06, just Lake City and Remington.  Can't swear to a difference in performance but I have lost a few Lake City cases due to neck cracks, maybe since it's about 50 years old.

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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RicinYakima posted this 23 April 2018

John,

The Winchester cases referred to above have been useable because I stress relieve them every year. I put them in an aluminum plate, neck down,  that floats in a Lee lead pot at exactly 750 degrees. After 10 seconds they are removed to cool. Works good for me and the article was published in the Fouling Shot years ago.

Ric

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Ross Smith posted this 24 April 2018

The most dramatic increase in accuracy for me was switching from hornady to Lapua cartridge cases for my .223

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joeb33050 posted this 24 April 2018

The most dramatic increase in accuracy for me was switching from hornady to Lapua cartridge cases for my .223

What were the before/after group sizes?

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OU812 posted this 24 April 2018

Lapua brass is more uniform, but I have noticed some cases from the same lot have lots more neck tension than others. Annealing helped some, but not completely. You can feel this tighter neck tension resistance when full length resizing using expander ball.

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Ross Smith posted this 25 April 2018

Joe: Shooting jb's, I went from over 2 " to right at 1" at 100 yds. Tikka t3 lite. Still an inconsistent grouper, just smaller groups. I weighed alot of brass of many headstamps. Lapua was most consistent, my rcbs balance beam couldn't find any difference, norma was a close second.. Hornady were one of the worst with10% variance in weight. The absolute worst was a mix of 20 different headstamps ,military and civilian, at close to 15% weight variance, The last group were not all trimmed the same though.

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