guns as an investment

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  • Last Post 01 February 2019
loophole posted this 26 January 2019

In my younger days I spent a lot of time buying and selling firearms.  A friend and I would even rent a table at the gunshow  and spend weekends talking and swapping guns. I usually lost money because I often paid too much for one of my eclectic interests, and had to sell cheap because I lost interest in the gun and needed the money for some new gun project.  I was too poor to afford many real antiques or collector's items. I accumulated a lot of modern production single shots and lever guns. 

I learned that even very expensive hunting and sporting rifles such as Griffen & Howe Springfieds  were not a very good investment a few years ago  and very few of us were able to recover the investment in rebarreld and accurized hunting and varmint rifles.  I think the current Black Rifle and plastic gun fad will fade. So I submit for your consideration the investment future of  my current interest--vintage Marlins and Winchester of the type many of us use for cast bullets. 

I recently decided I wanted a 25-35 lever gun.  Japanese Winchesters are with modern safeties and metric screws sell for far too much money, in my opinion. and new Marlins have more redundant safeties and quality control problem.  As I reported on an earlier post I bought a 100 year old Mod 94 I very shootable condition for about the same money as the new Japanese Winchester costs.  

Confidence in the value of dollars or stocks with the current pack of vultures running this country is deluded, and I have not found anything I consider to be a safe investment.  I never was interested in antiques as an investment, but years ago one of my clients was a nationally known antique  dealer.  I studied his catalogue and saw many pictures of beautiful antique firearms.  All too pricey for my modest means.  I asked him about his interest in guns and learned that he wouldn't know how to load a gun, but he knew all about vintage gunmakers and values of all types if antique firearms, just as he knew everything there is to know about fine art and furniture. 

The other day in talking to antique gun dealers I remembered that there apparently is a market for guns which has no interest in shooting, the 2nd Amendment  or any of the things we associate with firearms.  I was struck with a blinding flash of the obvious--vintage firearms may be a very good investment at least in part because there is a demand for them among people who have money and whose interest is completely detached from the popularity of shooting.

You boys who have been looking for a way to persuade your wife to let you buy more guns owe me a big thanks for this idea.

Steve k 

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RicinYakima posted this 01 February 2019

Oh, that's the new one that begins July 1, 2019. The one with the background check has been enforced since November 2014. Gun shows are dead in eastern WA, the one scheduled for tomorrow has been canceled in Walla Walla. Unless you are an FFL dealer nobody will buy from you because they think they are being set up in a "sting". Oh, and C&R's don't count, you are just like anyone on the street. The 2014 law suit went to the state Supreme Court and failed seven to zero, the state can do what they want.

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Bud Hyett posted this 01 February 2019

The Washington law comprises fourteen pages and is so written to be self-contradictory. Many county sheriffs are refusing to enforce this law until there is an understanding of the practical application of the contents. This law will be likely to be overturned, but that can be a decade and many dollars away. The only time two people can share a rifle is at a range for instruction, and that is hazily written. 

In the meantime, if you transgress the law in any form, which with such a poorly written law is easy to do, you now have a firearms violation on your record that will haunt you in the purchase of any future firearms. (And few of us are rich enough to contribute to the Governor's presidential bid to get a pardon.) I recall in Atlas Shrugged how the bureaucrat forgave the first breaking of a law, not out of good faith, but to have a control in all future dealings with that person. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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loophole posted this 31 January 2019

Gentlemen:

Those of you who live in fascist states like WA and NY have my deep sympathy, but NC is attracting mobs of refugees from those places and others who can't live in the utopias which their regulations and taxes have created, but come here and immediately start telling us how much better "they did things in New Jersey".  I'm afraid even Texans are in danger of those refugees and their rabid hatred of guns.

I got curious about Stevens single shots and remembered a book by Frank DeHaas who was an expert on such things.   It seems that Stevens made a mod 44 chambered in rimfire calibres and a few weak old black powder centerfires.  They later made a 44-1/2 and an O44-1/2 which were a different design, much stronger and loaded mostly in centerfires, including some of the later hotter 38/55 and 32/20 smokeless  rounds intended for Winchester '85's and '94's.  I now am confident that a 44-1/2 in 38-55 will safely handle my Ned Roberts level loads.

Steve k

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David Reiss posted this 31 January 2019

 Ric & Harrold,

I am sorry to hear about all your woes, but you are always welcome here in Texas. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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RicinYakima posted this 31 January 2019

In WA I can not loan my 50 year old son a rifle to take to the range without an FBI background check. Nor can he give it back to me without one!

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beagle6 posted this 30 January 2019

David

To show how bad this SAFE ACT is, I can't even pass my guns to my grandson without running them thru a dealer first. Our county sheriff has publicly said he won't enforce this law ( bless his heart) but the state police will.

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David Reiss posted this 30 January 2019

For me, I don't sell my guns and don't buy for an investment. In fact I have never sold a gun I bought for me, but did trade two for other guns. So personally this is not an issue for me as I plan to pass all my guns to my children and grandchildren. But I do understand the predicament law changes might cause for others. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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RicinYakima posted this 30 January 2019

 David, Same here in WA. Now that any self-loading rifle is an "assault rifle" and magazines over 10 rounds are banned, what do I do with all my M1 Carbine 30 rounders and 10/22 Ruger magazines? Ric

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beagle6 posted this 30 January 2019

David

It's not about prying things out of your dead hands, How are you going to sell something that's outlawed. We already have a big problem with this here in New York with the so called Safe Act.

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joeb33050 posted this 30 January 2019

Among the rifles I foolishly sold was a Stevens 044-1/2 English model in 22SS.  Used cases cost  over a dollar apiece 25 years ago, nobody was making new ones, and I needed the money for another rifle.  What do you boys think about a Stevens 44 either in 38-55 or 32-40? 

Steve k

I saw one blow up at WNYSS; went home and sold all my "weak" SS rifles. Ballard, Stevens 44, Win lo wall, all trouble with a double charge. Stevens 44 is a good 22rf action.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 30 January 2019

stevens 44 in 32-40 ... hey, i shot a lot through one when i wuz a kid ....  #80 and all ....  a great one to shoot, as long as you keep the loads down a whole lot ....  it is a smooth beefy toggle action ... leverage keeps it closed when fired ... heh ...

there was a 44 making it's rounds around the so. minnesota gun shows a couple years ago ....  half the time it was presented as a " mysterious " 44 1/2 ....  i think it was usually in the $600-$800 range .. still not a bad buy .

some of those were quite pretty ...

ken

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David Reiss posted this 30 January 2019

The only comment I have in regard to Beagle's post is, "when they pry my cold dead hands".

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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loophole posted this 30 January 2019

I share with Beagle a growing concern about lyin' theavin' politicians and  more and more restrictive gun laws, but given the present political climate the black rifles are the focus of their ignorance.  Speaking strictly from the standpoint of an investor I see no future in AR15's or any military rifle made in the 20th century or later.  I'm looking for single shot and lever actions. 

Among the rifles I foolishly sold was a Stevens 044-1/2 English model in 22SS.  Used cases cost  over a dollar apiece 25 years ago, nobody was making new ones, and I needed the money for another rifle.  What do you boys think about a Stevens 44 either in 38-55 or 32-40? 

Steve k

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RicinYakima posted this 29 January 2019

I hear you Bud! Other than twenty 1903 Springfields, everything is a shooter!

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Bud Hyett posted this 29 January 2019

Investment depends on getting all variations of a model. This also depends on having a collection for which others will bid or trade. I knew a gunsmith in Pomona, California who had every factory variation of the original square-bolt Marlin 1895. In a climate controlled room, the shop walls were lined with these rifles; from .33 WCF to .45-90, in rifles and carbines, pistol grip and straight stock, octagon and round barrel. His comment was there were not enough Marlin collectors for him to sell his collection. As we talked, I realized you may have a great value on the walls, but converting value to cash can in itself become a lifetime project. 

My collection is not a collection in the normal sense, but more of a theme of collecting what I like to shoot, cast or jacketed, or to experiment . I am a sucker for single-shot rifles and double-action .45 Colt revolvers. The collection has this theme and only two truly collectible revolvers. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 28 January 2019

Take a close look at the rate of increased value of Class 3 items.

I know a fellow who's retirement is based on his collection.

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beagle6 posted this 28 January 2019

Before investing in guns, you may want to factor in what the politicians will allow us to keep. Look at what happened in England and Australia. I really don't like the look of things.

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M3 Mitch posted this 28 January 2019

It's hard to figure out what guns will appreciate.  Consider the now out of print Python - good grief, why didn't I have enough sense to buy a case of those back in the 80's? 

For whatever reason, Winchesters and Colts tend to trade for higher prices than Marlins and Smith and Wessons, even though the latter brands, broad brush, are better engineered gats.  Go figure. I have no idea why.

Some of the guns in my safe are worth more than I paid for them, but since I don't want to sell them, I'm not making any claim of "investment" status.  I am glad to have had them, and to have bought back when the price was lower than now. 

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David Reiss posted this 28 January 2019

I buy them, and play with them, and BS about them with my friends. Spend all kinds of money on brass, dies, moulds, etc. When I go 10 toes up I will not give a darn about what happens to all that stuff. Throw it in a dumpster, I won't know. And always remember, "It's only money, pigs won't even eat  it."

Duke

Hey Duke,

I know where a dumpster is. Send it to me and I will take care of throwing it in. Wink, nod!

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Dukem posted this 27 January 2019

I buy them, and play with them, and BS about them with my friends. Spend all kinds of money on brass, dies, moulds, etc. When I go 10 toes up I will not give a darn about what happens to all that stuff. Throw it in a dumpster, I won't know. And always remember, "It's only money, pigs won't even eat  it."

Duke

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