Early Bullseye Smokeless Powder

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Bryan Austin posted this 05 February 2023

I finally got around to digging in some old items while surfing the net. I wanted to see what I could find for this Laflin & Rand powder from back in the day. I'm sure one of you guys can fill me in on details.

Would this be "Infallible" shotgun smokeless? Some information within shows that shooters were using Infallible in the 30-40 Krag. It was also mentioned that the charge had to be lowered due to a chemical issue or mixture. This is probably where Unique comes into play. Unique came from Infallible by 1900 so I am not sure which they are referring.

Anyhow...

October 24, 1901 "Infallible"?

 

The accompanying targets are represented full size. They were made at a distance of 20 yards. One shows 6 shots. the other 60 shots. The shooting was with a load of Laflin & Rand shotgun smokeless powder, 6 grains by weight, not by measure, and a hard round bullet seated in a grooved shell , U. M. C. make. The shooting was done by C. F. G. Arm strong with a .44 caliber revolver. Mr. Armstrong writes : “ I do not send these as showing high scores, but more to illustrate the value of the charge, thinking it may help someone else who is looking for a smokeless powder charge for revolvers." Mr. Arm strong says he had no unaccountable shots when experimenting with this charge

Sixty consecutive shots at 20 yards - every shot fired Oct. 19— by C. F. G. Armstrong, with a .44 caliber revolver, 6 grains weight of Laflin & Rand Shotgun Smokeless powder and 1 to 14 round bullet. Reproduced exact size.

 

Six shots at 20 yards, Oct. 14, hy C.F. G. Armstrong, with a .44 caliber revolver, 6 grains weight of Laflin & Rand Shotgun Smokeless powder and 1 to 14 round bullet lubricated with japan wax and vaseline. Reproduced exact size. 

 

 

November 28, 1901 "Bullseye"

I assume this to be the Blue Cans. Apparently the Red cans were discontinued and the powder re-introduced the same year. Some red label cans have a data overlay so I assume in the blue cans but the dates are still a bit confusing.

The Laflin & Rand Powder Company has just perfected a new powder which will shortly be placed on the market, and which will be known as the Laflin & Rand Bullseye Smokeless powder. It is black in color, and intended for revolver shooting. Tests of this powder show it has remarkable cleanliness and gives very accurate results. The powder is of the dense class . It gives very fine results in the .44 [I assume 44 Colt] and .38 caliber revolvers, and works well in the Colt automatic, the Mauser and the Luger pistols . On Saturday last a trial of this powder was made at Greenville, and Dr. R. H. Sayre was given twelve cartridges, two of which he used for sighting shots . The remaining ten he fired a score in the club con test . The shooting was at 50 yards on the Standard target, and his score was 96 out of a possible 100, the highest 10 - shot score he has ever fired at that range. Inspector Ed. Taylor is confident that this powder will give universal satisfaction to revolver shooters. 

 

Feb 6, 1902 "Bullseye", and I think a 44 S&W or 44 Colt?

 

April 10, 1902...no further mention of Bullseye powder to this date.

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Bryan Austin posted this 06 February 2023

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Wineman posted this 06 February 2023

I read somewhere that in Afghanistan, film was again used as a propellant. I will look around and see. Not sure how much longer this will last with video tape and digital formats?

Dave

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Bryan Austin posted this 06 February 2023

Interesting. Hercules Powder was sold to Alliant in 1995. Just because it is sold with the same name, doesn't mean the processes or techniques never change. Thanks for posting!

 

The Laflin & Rand information posted by Klaus Neuschaefer was in 2007, didn't mean to insinuate that Alliant acquired it in 2007. Another example of important communicational language, I failed on that one!

 

 

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RicinYakima posted this 05 February 2023

Ever hear the movie channels talk about "a film from the vault"?

That is where they were stored as they would spontaneously ignite under certain conditions. Insurance company would not insure movie theaters. Finally they went to fire proof concrete and asbestos paneled vaults when the reel of film was taken off the projector. 

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.22-10-45 posted this 05 February 2023

On the subject of early smokeless powders,  I wish I could find the article about British India or the North West frontier in the late 1800!s or early 1900!s.  It seems movie theaters were being broken into and the only thing stolen was reels of film..money was available but not touched.  The British soon found captured .577/.450 & .303 ball were being reloaded with finely chopped celluloid movie film.  They were using Coffee grinders.

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RicinYakima posted this 05 February 2023

Interesting. Hercules Powder was sold to Alliant in 1995. Just because it is sold with the same name, doesn't mean the processes or techniques never change. Thanks for posting!

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Bryan Austin posted this 05 February 2023

Yes, on the same page, in a separate piece just above my original post, there was this.....

C. F.G. Armstrong writes us as follows: “ I saw in the last issue of SHOOTING AND FISHING scores shot by me at the Marion, N. J., rifle range Oct. 5, one being mentioned as being shot in the prone position . This is a mistake. All the shooting was done offhand with a Remington- Lee military rifle without wind gauge. The cartridges were loaded with 8 grains of Laflin & Rand .45 caliber smokeless powder and the Hudson bullet, which weighed 160 grains. At the time of this shooting a very strong wind was blowing, but to me this made the shooting particularly interesting. This charge is regarded by some as a toy charge, but I believe it shoots better than any fixed ammunition on the market at the present time, regardless of caliber. Surely the Laflin & Rand Powder Co. is giving us an excellent powder." 

".45 Caliber smokeless powder" (45-70) at one point is what folks were calling Laflin & Rand "Sharpshooter" powder back those days. However, 8gr is a bit low compared to the 20gr normal published charge on the back of the powder can for the 45-70.

There was another mention of the 30-40 

October 31, 1901

REDUCED .30-40 LOADS . - ADDITIONAL NOTES.

As several shooters have reported some trouble with the 11 grain load of Laflin & Rand .45 caliber tubular powder in the .30-40 cartridge, which gave us such good results last year, I have recently made a few additional experiments with my bullet and the special alloy devised for it. The trouble only seems to be that the later batches of this powder possess higher ballistic qualities, so that a load which was  all right for the earlier lot is now to great. To those who have had trouble, I would say cutting down the load from 11 grains to 10, 9, or even 8 grains, will remove the difficulty , some guns permitting more than others. 

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.22-10-45 posted this 05 February 2023

It is interesting that they were adjusting burn rate with powder grain size at this early date exactly as black powder burn rate is regulated.

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Bryan Austin posted this 05 February 2023

This may change your mind...or may not!


https://www.castpics.net/subsite2/GeneralReference/L&R-Smokeless.pdf

By Klaus Neuschaefer 

 

In accordance with the magazine information of when the "New" Bullseye was available, the dates make sense with the exception that the "New Powder" mention that was printed in the magazine during the end of 1901. If true, there was a lot going on with those floor sweepings!

 

1898

L&R Bullseye was introduced in 1898 to replace Revolver Smokeless. This is one of those powders that had several types. There were two versions of Bullseye, the first of which was known as Bullseye #1 or “dust” Bullseye. Two different sources refer to this being the “sweepings” or screenings left over from the manufacture of Infallible, with very fine irregular triangular or diamond shaped grains.1 Close examination of two samples indicate that it was half moon kernels created similarly to Infallible but cut so thin as to create incomplete rounds.

 

1901/1902 (magazine news)

The Laflin & Rand Powder Company has just perfected a new powder which will shortly be placed on the market, and which will be known as the Laflin & Rand Bullseye Smokeless powder. It is black in color, and intended for revolver shooting. Tests of this powder show it has remarkable cleanliness and gives very accurate results. The powder is of the dense class . It gives very fine results in the .44 [I assume 44 Colt] and .38 caliber revolvers, and works well in the Colt automatic, the Mauser and the Luger pistols . On Saturday last a trial of this powder was made at Greenville, and Dr. R. H. Sayre was given twelve cartridges, two of which he used for sighting shots . The remaining ten he fired a score in the club con test . The shooting was at 50 yards on the Standard target, and his score was 96 out of a possible 100, the highest 10 - shot score he has ever fired at that range. Inspector Ed. Taylor is confident that this powder will give universal satisfaction to revolver shooters. 

 

1904

L&R Bullseye #2 was supposed to have been brought out in 1904 as small round black discs .038” dia. X .003”, ostensibly because there were insufficient quantities of #1 to meet demand. See further discussion under “Suspicions”. It contained 40% NG. Four grains of Bullseye was the normal load for the .45 (long) Colt revolver. This Bullseye #2 is what we identify today as Bullseye, and this author believes that it has not changed formula since its introduction in 1898. It went to DuPont in 1907 and to Hercules in 1912. Bullseye, Unique, and Infallible were all made from the same formula, the only difference being granulation.2 It is still manufactured by Alliant in 2007.

1907 - Dupont

1912 - Hercules

2007 - Alliant

 

Suspicions: 

Bullseye cannot ever have been the fines left over from the manufacture of Infallible, as alleged by Sharpe,1 because it was always an extruded (pressed) powder and never cut from sheets. This method of manufacture would not leave the triangular or diamond shaped “fines” as is described. Furthermore, because Infallible was cut or sliced from long strands of powder, it generates very little in the way of “fines” in any case, and any out sized granules produced would mostly be longer or larger than Infallible, not smaller. Finally, uncontrolled very fine powder as is described would be extraordinarily fast burning and very prone to detonation. That would be very hard on the firearm and ultimately the shooter. 

 

Further Notes on Bullseye #1 and #2

An L&R Revolver Smokeless tin was acquired with a Bullseye label pasted on the back, in which a small quantity of powder remained, looking like small half-moons and crumbs, mixed with brown dust (deteriorated). Another L&R Bullseye tin was acquired, (nearly full!) the contents of which are also little half-moons that if full round would measure about 0.06”. This powder appears to be un-deteriorated, and has a lot number on the bottom of the tin (460?7). Since this tin seems to have a lot number on the bottom, unlike any of the other L&R tins, it is assumed that it was made after 1902, and acquisition by DuPont. Enhanced Suspicion: Bullseye #1 may have been made with the same die as Infallible, but set to cut as fine as possible, not even giving full round cuts. The cuts are so thin that many of the granules are mangled into odd shapes. Bullseye #2, having been made with a smaller die and thicker with fully round cuts, for better consistency, probably after acquisition by DuPont, but before transfer to Hercules. 

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RicinYakima posted this 05 February 2023

Having been a reloader interested in where we have been for over 50 years, this is my opinion for what that is worth. 

L&R made double based powders with the same chemistry. The "sweepings" off the floors were made for safety reasons. Once you have barrels of this leavings, what do you do with it? Give it a name and sell it. 

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