Dinosaurs R Us?

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JimmyDee posted this 24 September 2021

From the latest American Rifleman:

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99 Strajght posted this 24 September 2021

I don't know about that. I see a lot of USPSA shooters casting and some new ones to. I know a few  Schuetzen shooters and a few new ones there to. And I have seen a few deer hunters trying out there cast bullet loads at the range. Try to find a new bullet mold from any supplier. All gone. 

Glenn 

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 24 September 2021

If bullet casters were dwindling, there would be a glut of bullet casting equipment on the market at low prices.  Monitoring a few of the forums dedicated to bullet casting  will clearly show that there is a surge of interest in people interested in taking up bullet casting due to component shortages.  The author of that article seems to be out of touch with what is going on across the country. 

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lotech posted this 24 September 2021

All of that may be true. Bullet casters may not be dwindling in numbers, but handloaders in general represent only a very small portion of shooters. Bullet casters represent a much smaller number among the handloaders. With the continued deterioration of AMERICAN RIFLEMAN content, I wouldn't expect to see much in the way of factual comments or in-depth knowledge regarding cast bullets. The interest among the majority of readers isn't there and I doubt the AR would know where to begin with anything regarding cast bullets. The fact that the AR hasn't had a technical staff or a good editor in a long time probably has something to do with all this as well.  

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Maven posted this 24 September 2021

Makes you wonder how AR came to that conclusion.

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RicinYakima posted this 24 September 2021

Due to time lag between writing and publication, it may have been true in 2019, but not in 2021. 

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John Alexander posted this 24 September 2021

You are kind Ric, but Lee and others producing molds and other stuff for casters have been doing a good business right along and of course now are mostly out of stock. Think of all the active organizations that shoot cast bullets

I saw the comment but it didn't surprise me. In 2007 we held the CBA National Tournament in the D,C. area, a few miles from the AR offices. I wrote the chief editor with copies to three others on the AR staff and suggested that since we were a dues paying NRA organization they might want to cover the match or that I would write a short article for their consideration and editing. I also suggested they might like to at least send a photographer since it was in their backyard.

I was prepared for them to say that they didn't think it would be of enough interest to their readers. However, none of them showed the common courtesy of answering my letter or even acknowledging that it had been received. 

In my opinion they have been a corrupt organization for a long time, more interested in Wayne and his buddy's high flying lifestyle with our dues than concern about their members shooting interests and welfare.

John

 

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JeffinNZ posted this 24 September 2021

Almost impossible to measure.  I suspect there is a degree of truth however.  How easy is it to source lead alloy now?

Cheers from New Zealand

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 24 September 2021

"Lead" is not difficult to obtain.  Cheap "lead" is a matter of luck.  I follow several forums and people new to casting and reloading display different attitudes.  One fellow felt it should just fall into his lap without even getting out and meeting people.  He made a lot of noise about going out the next weekend and would report back with his treasures.  Turns out he never even went. 

Others will try and may or may not have success.  Those might get a care package or a sweet heart deal on a box of lead. Once a person actually gets out, works on a source and gets started,  they start having success.  Those are the ones worthy of your time.

 

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M1fuzz posted this 24 September 2021

Yeah. A little out of touch. Maybe getting “paid” by the jacketed companies????? Kind of like this moron. Watch the link. I am sure some of you probably already have seen it. Just try to not lose to many brain calls watching it.

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M1fuzz posted this 24 September 2021

I am sure there has been an uptick in people buying casting items and lead and they have may have caused some of this shortage but, I also believe that the whole shutdown thing played a part in it. Look at everything else that is either in short supply or behind in manufacturing w/ waiting periods. I think the mix of political crap and the Chicom COVID made the perfect storm.

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David Reiss posted this 25 September 2021

For me this is an irresponsible and just plain stupid statement.

First it does a disservice to all those companies that are involved in manufacturing casting supplies. Ask them if their business has slowed down, I think we all now the answer to that. The NRA should be supportive of all aspects of the shooting sports.

Second it just shows that the NRA staff is so deep into black guns (handguns and rifles) that they have no clue. Look at other publications like Handgunner, Guns, Handloader, ect. and you will see articles nearly every month that has some cast bullet data for "non-obsolete" calibers.I am not saying that you will find casting supplies at your local gun store, but it is found everywhere online.

To the NRA staff, "Put your plastic 9 down, put the AR back in the safe, get out of the office and out from behind your computers".

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Wm Cook posted this 25 September 2021

I am getting old and I’m starting to accept that.

I shoot cast because it’s a hell of a lot harder to shoot .5” groups with cast than it is to shoot in the teens with jacketed. Cast is more of a challenge and a lot of folks want the gratification without the effort.

With today’s 24/7 news cycles and the current passion for high capacity magazines and plastic guns it’s a sign of a new generation and a new way of thinking. Some of the folks that are involved in our sport think the World began when sunshine hit their behind for the first time. That they were anointed with Devine wisdom.

Handloader or Rifle had an article about the Hornet (I think it was K Hornet) in the September issue that I was excited to read. But sadly, at least in my opinion, the “author” spent about an hour on his computer doing enough research to pick up a few names and powders he could sprinkle into the article, then took 30 minutes at the range to report on the half dozen groups he shot with the “new” powders on the market. Sorry for venting. Bill.

My Uncle once told me that you learn something new every day. And when the day comes that you don’t learn anything, well, that’ll be the day after you die.

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sluggo posted this 25 September 2021

I watched the video that M1fuzz suggested. With that type of thinking I would guess that in about a year his YouTube channel would be featuring the hot new airsoft weapons after it was found that powder gasses and polymer and copper bullets are worst than lead for the environment. What a chooch.

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Ed Harris posted this 26 September 2021

I sincerely doubt they have any "real" shooters left on the AR staff. When I was hired in 1971, being recently discharged from the Navy, I was interviewed by Col. E.H. Harrison, M.D Waite and Ludwig Olson, who were all career military ordnance types and trained as engineers or having technical intelligence experience. They wanted to know if you knew your stuff, but also had a wry sense of humor. They asked me to explain what a slam-fire was and I gave examples of the M3 breeder in and how I had observed one in a Garand when a dropped primer left debris in the boldface. They smiled approvingly. Bud Waite then asked what would happen if you pulled the bullet from a Cal. .30 Ball M2 round, turned it around and reseated it? I replied? "It would shoot backwards, of course." They all laughed and I was hired.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 26 September 2021

M3 Grease Gun...I hate auto correct and was unable to fix on this new phone!!!#

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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beltfed posted this 26 September 2021

Here I am at a month short of completing  80 years that the Good Lord has allowed me on this earth.

What have I been doing lately?

Sorted and then Rendered down +- 600 pounds of COWW and SOWW  from recent acquisitions.

Added that to the COWW, Lead Pigs, Lino to the tune of another 5-600pounds I already had.

Now back to casting for most of my rifles and handguns for whatever future I have left on this earth.

Also work on recruiting and helping others with the "joys" and Satisfaction of accurately shooting 

their firearms with their OWN bullets

beltfed/arnie

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Glaciers posted this 26 September 2021

I am sure there has been an uptick in people buying casting items and lead and they have may have caused some of this shortage but, I also believe that the whole shutdown thing played a part in it. Look at everything else that is either in short supply or behind in manufacturing w/ waiting periods. I think the mix of political crap and the Chicom COVID made the perfect storm.
well just wanted to add to this post that I find can be applied to many shortages currently, which is lack of employees to staff a business adequately.  This has messed up the supply chain.

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JohnForrest posted this 26 September 2021

I wish you were my neighbor Arnie. 

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Dale53 posted this 26 September 2021

JimmyDee;

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I am a SERIOUS reader, and used to read the American Rifleman cover to cover. Unfortunately, these days, not very much. I am a Life Member of the NRA but am no longer terribly interested in the AR.

”Lo, how the mighty are fallen”! Shaking my head…

Dale53

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skeet1 posted this 27 September 2021

Some people seem to think that we should start using all-copper bullets and use less lead. If we would start doing that the other side would just say there are so few people using lead we should just ban it altogether.  I think we should not let the other side dictate to us what we should use.

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Idahocaster posted this 27 September 2021

Here are the "cartridges that lack commonly available projectiles" that I load with cast bullets:

380 ACP 38 Special 357 Magnum 270 Winchester 30-30 30-06 7.5x55

Who knew bullets for these cartridges are so hard to find?

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BigMan54 posted this 27 September 2021

I saw this a year ago. And left unkind comment for this Moron. 

And if you notice twice as many people disliked it as liked it. 

This guy just pissed me off, rude and ignorant.  

 

For many years whenever I went to the indoor range, I was the only Shooter with handloads and Shooting a Revolver. We may be a small percentage,  but we're growing again. 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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Tom Acheson posted this 27 September 2021

Careful guys, criticism of the NRA has in the past been defined as political and the posts were deleted.

Tom

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John Alexander posted this 28 September 2021

I don't think carefully worded and factual criticism or praise of the NRA should be considered political.  They are not an elected official from one party or the other, they are our organization.  We are dues paying members and should be able to have an opinion about  OUR organization. In my opinion their shortcomings extend beyond their political activities and include the decline of the AR, and their apparent lack of interest in various shooting organizations except for the dues such organizations pay.

I know that I have paying dues and sending contributions to them for over 60 years and I am very disappointed.

Of course such criticism could be political and out of bounds for this forum if it doesn't stick to opinions on how well they are serving their members.

I trust the judgement of the moderators.

John

 

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Eutectic posted this 08 October 2021

Quite frequently I get questions at the range when shooters see me shooting cast.
Why do I do it? Because I can shoot 38's and 45's as cheap as 22 LR.
I can shoot 300 centerfire rifle in an afternoon and not go broke.
How do you get the leading out? It is not there, do you see any in this barrel?
No questions about accuracy, my targets are pretty good.

The real problem is the number of reloaders is pretty slim.
To shoot cast you must first reload, so the cost of start-up is pretty steep.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 08 October 2021

at my last local range visit, i noticed a youngster with a nice Garand .. he saw me drooling, so he graciously let me pop off a CLIP of brand new factory Winchesters through it.  

i was in shock when he just let the brass lay where they fell, including all those he and another guest put through the gun ... then i noticed a couple other benches had fresh 30-06, 308, and even 350 Legend brass still laying on the ground. ( yep, not for long ( g ) ) ....

guess there is a new breed in town ... in my 65 years of shooting in this area, i don't remember any shooters who didn't reload ...   sigh ... but of course we also built our own garages and raised our own popcorn ...

*********

but some light ... one of the young shooters was pounding away at 500 yards. prone on a shooting blanket, trick F gun, and a serious expression ...   maybe--- just maybe ...

ken

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JohnForrest posted this 09 October 2021

We should all be helping one or two new shooters each year "get into"  re-loading. 

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Bud Hyett posted this 10 October 2021

We need to take time to instruct the new shooters to help save our sport. At the mature age of 76, I like seeing those youngsters a half-century younger than me at the range. I've recently been asked about shooting cast bullets in AR-15 style rifles. I had to admit I did not know much about this subject. 

In club meetings the last several months, I've been asked by several shooters to teach reloading and casting. The members of both Boeing Employees Rifle and Pistol Club and the Kenmore Range realize the shortages, and that Alice and I continue shooting. The primer/powder shortage is the only item I cannot address for them since they will not get mine.

I tell them there will two four-hour sessions, the first one where I instruct them and a follow-up where they teach me as a check to see what they have learned. I tell them there is an initial investment in equipment, but you will produce bullets for many years. I also tell them they can see the equipment that I now use and avoid the added cost of the gradual buildup that I had as I added better equipment. 

At the last BERP meeting, I showed the videos of this year's National Tournament with emphasis on the wind flags. Then I told them out shooting  prairie dogs, you experience the same kind of wind. Competition has the benefit of making much more aware of the wind. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Bud Hyett posted this 10 October 2021

I'd like to thank the people who placed the videos and results on the website. This is a lot of work and time away from their own projects. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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JimmyDee posted this 26 October 2021

I was gently poking fun at the magazine when I started this thread.  Since then, I've tried to locate some percussion caps and was surprised by the number of products that were out of stock -- many of them "Discontinued, no back order."  Curious, I checked for J-bullets, cases, powder, and primers and, time after time, came up empty.  Some fixed ammunition is showing up but the pickings are slim.  Powder, primers, and popular cases are scarce, as are molds.  New firearms?  A few shotguns, lots of "modern sporting rifles," and plenty of polymer pistols.  Ruger, as far as I can tell, hasn't shipped a steel center fire revolver for a long time.

I recently learned that only two corporations control ammunition manufacturing.  Hodgdon seems to be the source of almost all smokeless powder and is shutting down the last US black powder manufacturer at year-end.  Some of our favorite powders have disappeared and will never return.  

Before the COVID theater curtain rose, I found that the price of revolvers and old-fashioned rifles (other than cowboy rigs) were dropping nicely because buyers were interested in ARs and plastic.  No longer.  Used revolvers in good condition are selling at a premium.  Bolt guns are all over the place; the good deals are in odd-ball calibers.

I had a terrible thought:  Is it possible that our favorite products won't ever come back?  That the few manufacturers who remain will concentrate on only the most popular products and ignore everything else?  That the price of serviceable firearms will rise beyond our reach?  That the changing environment will doom us to extinction?

 

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RicinYakima posted this 26 October 2021

Having attended the big Denver gun show for nine years now, the price of pre-1950 guns is falling by about 20% in the last two years. Us old farts are either dying off or no longer control the money. FWIW

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 October 2021

well

there was a decent movie called " Winchester 73 " ... i was thrilled the first time i got to shoot a genuine Winchester 73 ...

i doubt and don't care if there is a movie called " Mossberg 715 AR15 " ....

******************

but i am hoping that Lee is simply selling more molds than they can make ... and not just devoting all their capacity to turning out 223 and 6.5 creedmore dies ...

interesting times ...   ken

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RicinYakima posted this 26 October 2021

Like "Deep Throat" said, they will always follow the money, especially Lee. 

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GregT posted this 26 October 2021

Lee Precision has given up the sales and distribution part of the business and put their entire catalog on Amazon. Midway will show almost everything out of stock, but when you order most Midway items through Amazon they have it----and then it is shipped by Midway! I started two new cartridges (for me) in the past two months that I had almost no equipment to cast or reload for. Loading dies for the .38/40 was shipped for Lee by a company on Amazon. Two bullet moulds (Lee product) came from a company on Amazon and  (two for the .38/40), Lyman H&I .4 bullet sizing die (Midway did not have one), I ordered from Amazon and Midway fulfilled and shipped it!). As my .35 Winchester self-loading project has been on-going for some some, I had a bullet mould from Accurate and dies from CH4D ordered last April. I just received a custom made H&I .352 die set from Buffalo Arms when I randomly found it there and fell all over it, Shipped within 4 days. Obtained 250 .38/40 new cartridge cases from LG Outdoors,Watumpka, Alabama.Shipped fast. To get this stuff, you have to persist and LOOK for it. Obtaining equipment has changed, major big names have forgotten how they got their big names and will not ship to you. I have been reloading cast bullets since I was 16, now have 80 sets of reloading dies, and find I still don't always have what I need.

GregT

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John Alexander posted this 26 October 2021

JimmyDee,

I think you can relax.  I have always been skeptical  of "end of world" predictions and been right so far.

For instance, people have been saying for at least 35 years that cast bullet shooting and the CBA in particular will soon be gone  because all the old coots were dying off. Or some THEY were going to stop making _____ . Or THEY were going to outlaw _____. Well guess what? The old coots did die off, but here we still are.  At this year's nationals we had 8 first time entries, at least 3 of them under thirty.  Eventually some of those black rifle shooters will, shall we say, "mature" and look for an adult shooting sport.

As far as not being able to get guns, equipment, or supplies, Ric's principle applies here "follow the money" As long as somebody can make a buck by  providing things somebody wants to buy they will.  It's called capitalism.

John

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Bud Hyett posted this 26 October 2021

There are fads in firearms sales, I noticed this at the Aledo Gun Show many years ago. For two shows, the hot item was a .25-’06, then the 6.5 Swede, then a .270 Winchester. An article in the American Rifleman or one of the slick gun magazines would spark a rush to buy that firearm.

As an example, I offered to buy a .45 Colt New Service from a gunsmith. He wanted $225.00, I offered $200.00 tax included. He said he would try one more time at the gun show in a few weeks, then sell it to me if it did not move. There was an article on the Colt New Service in the American Rifleman the week before the show. When I saw him at the show on late Saturday morning, he started laughing. Someone walked up and offered him “$300.00 and not a penny more” without looking at the price tag. He sold it.

Working with new shooters, I teach them gun safety, basic hold, BRASS – Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze. And always emphasize to always point down range before loading. Then I push on competition emphasizing the time limits imitates the stress in the field; wind, mirage, instinctively shouldering or gripping correctly, checking for backstop. Then I introduce that much of my competition shooting is twofold. I enjoy the competition and it is practice for prairie dog shooting.

The challenge of range estimation, mental ballistic calculation for drop, wind reading, mirage reading, shouldering correctly, are all needed then and there. Matches each you the fundamentals, prairie dogs teach you the actuals. Then I point out that all these slick gun magazine “accessories” allow the prairie dog to have a leisurely bite and return to their hole while you are using them to set up the shot.

I also point out the investment in my firearms is regained more in this way. Why let your rifles sit all summer when there are prairie dogs, ground hogs, ground squirrels to eliminate?

As much as I hate to say it, I’ve stopped buying firearms. I’ve got what I wanted for many years, some in duplicate, and have sold off the poor shooting examples.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Bud Hyett posted this 26 October 2021

Adaptability is the key. I bought 500 Sierra .224 55 grain Blitz bullets on sale several years ago, added them to the stock for my .222 Remington Magnum. Now I find myself with 1200 of these unopened and growing short of the Sierra 55 grain Softpoint Boattails. Simple solution, slow down my .220 Swift and .22-.250 to 3400 feet-per-second and use them.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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RicinYakima posted this 27 October 2021

"As much as I hate to say it, I’ve stopped buying firearms. I’ve got what I wanted for many years, some in duplicate, and have sold off the poor shooting examples."

 

Most of my guns are going away because I have no one to leave them too. The kids get their favorites and neither grand-daughters have any interest in shooting sports or collecting. 

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Shopdog posted this 27 October 2021

OK, can't edit on this site so let's try it again.

It seems journalists don't want to spend the time researching so instead..... just throw some ballyhoo "up" to garner not only viewership but ideally get folks wound around the axle.

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Eddie Southgate posted this 30 October 2021

Good looking bullets .

Grumpy Old Man With A Gun......Do Not Touch .

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Eutectic posted this 30 October 2021

I was looking for a Redding die. Amazon had it for $$$ promised next day delivery. Same deal on Ebay but shipping was out of sight.

Brownell's said out of stock back order OK. Price was way less than Amazon. I ordered, Brownell's does not charge your credit card until they ship. A week later my card was charged and 4 days later it was in my mailbox.

I ordered a gun part from Brownells last week, yesterday it arrived.

I want to keep Brownells in business, same for Midway.

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