Dinosaurs R Us?

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JimmyDee posted this 24 September 2021

From the latest American Rifleman:

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 24 September 2021

If bullet casters were dwindling, there would be a glut of bullet casting equipment on the market at low prices.  Monitoring a few of the forums dedicated to bullet casting  will clearly show that there is a surge of interest in people interested in taking up bullet casting due to component shortages.  The author of that article seems to be out of touch with what is going on across the country. 

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John Alexander posted this 24 September 2021

You are kind Ric, but Lee and others producing molds and other stuff for casters have been doing a good business right along and of course now are mostly out of stock. Think of all the active organizations that shoot cast bullets

I saw the comment but it didn't surprise me. In 2007 we held the CBA National Tournament in the D,C. area, a few miles from the AR offices. I wrote the chief editor with copies to three others on the AR staff and suggested that since we were a dues paying NRA organization they might want to cover the match or that I would write a short article for their consideration and editing. I also suggested they might like to at least send a photographer since it was in their backyard.

I was prepared for them to say that they didn't think it would be of enough interest to their readers. However, none of them showed the common courtesy of answering my letter or even acknowledging that it had been received. 

In my opinion they have been a corrupt organization for a long time, more interested in Wayne and his buddy's high flying lifestyle with our dues than concern about their members shooting interests and welfare.

John

 

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lotech posted this 24 September 2021

All of that may be true. Bullet casters may not be dwindling in numbers, but handloaders in general represent only a very small portion of shooters. Bullet casters represent a much smaller number among the handloaders. With the continued deterioration of AMERICAN RIFLEMAN content, I wouldn't expect to see much in the way of factual comments or in-depth knowledge regarding cast bullets. The interest among the majority of readers isn't there and I doubt the AR would know where to begin with anything regarding cast bullets. The fact that the AR hasn't had a technical staff or a good editor in a long time probably has something to do with all this as well.  

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beltfed posted this 26 September 2021

Here I am at a month short of completing  80 years that the Good Lord has allowed me on this earth.

What have I been doing lately?

Sorted and then Rendered down +- 600 pounds of COWW and SOWW  from recent acquisitions.

Added that to the COWW, Lead Pigs, Lino to the tune of another 5-600pounds I already had.

Now back to casting for most of my rifles and handguns for whatever future I have left on this earth.

Also work on recruiting and helping others with the "joys" and Satisfaction of accurately shooting 

their firearms with their OWN bullets

beltfed/arnie

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Maven posted this 24 September 2021

Makes you wonder how AR came to that conclusion.

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Ed Harris posted this 26 September 2021

I sincerely doubt they have any "real" shooters left on the AR staff. When I was hired in 1971, being recently discharged from the Navy, I was interviewed by Col. E.H. Harrison, M.D Waite and Ludwig Olson, who were all career military ordnance types and trained as engineers or having technical intelligence experience. They wanted to know if you knew your stuff, but also had a wry sense of humor. They asked me to explain what a slam-fire was and I gave examples of the M3 breeder in and how I had observed one in a Garand when a dropped primer left debris in the boldface. They smiled approvingly. Bud Waite then asked what would happen if you pulled the bullet from a Cal. .30 Ball M2 round, turned it around and reseated it? I replied? "It would shoot backwards, of course." They all laughed and I was hired.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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skeet1 posted this 27 September 2021

Some people seem to think that we should start using all-copper bullets and use less lead. If we would start doing that the other side would just say there are so few people using lead we should just ban it altogether.  I think we should not let the other side dictate to us what we should use.

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99 Strajght posted this 24 September 2021

I don't know about that. I see a lot of USPSA shooters casting and some new ones to. I know a few  Schuetzen shooters and a few new ones there to. And I have seen a few deer hunters trying out there cast bullet loads at the range. Try to find a new bullet mold from any supplier. All gone. 

Glenn 

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RicinYakima posted this 24 September 2021

Due to time lag between writing and publication, it may have been true in 2019, but not in 2021. 

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David Reiss posted this 25 September 2021

For me this is an irresponsible and just plain stupid statement.

First it does a disservice to all those companies that are involved in manufacturing casting supplies. Ask them if their business has slowed down, I think we all now the answer to that. The NRA should be supportive of all aspects of the shooting sports.

Second it just shows that the NRA staff is so deep into black guns (handguns and rifles) that they have no clue. Look at other publications like Handgunner, Guns, Handloader, ect. and you will see articles nearly every month that has some cast bullet data for "non-obsolete" calibers.I am not saying that you will find casting supplies at your local gun store, but it is found everywhere online.

To the NRA staff, "Put your plastic 9 down, put the AR back in the safe, get out of the office and out from behind your computers".

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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John Alexander posted this 28 September 2021

I don't think carefully worded and factual criticism or praise of the NRA should be considered political.  They are not an elected official from one party or the other, they are our organization.  We are dues paying members and should be able to have an opinion about  OUR organization. In my opinion their shortcomings extend beyond their political activities and include the decline of the AR, and their apparent lack of interest in various shooting organizations except for the dues such organizations pay.

I know that I have paying dues and sending contributions to them for over 60 years and I am very disappointed.

Of course such criticism could be political and out of bounds for this forum if it doesn't stick to opinions on how well they are serving their members.

I trust the judgement of the moderators.

John

 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 08 October 2021

at my last local range visit, i noticed a youngster with a nice Garand .. he saw me drooling, so he graciously let me pop off a CLIP of brand new factory Winchesters through it.  

i was in shock when he just let the brass lay where they fell, including all those he and another guest put through the gun ... then i noticed a couple other benches had fresh 30-06, 308, and even 350 Legend brass still laying on the ground. ( yep, not for long ( g ) ) ....

guess there is a new breed in town ... in my 65 years of shooting in this area, i don't remember any shooters who didn't reload ...   sigh ... but of course we also built our own garages and raised our own popcorn ...

*********

but some light ... one of the young shooters was pounding away at 500 yards. prone on a shooting blanket, trick F gun, and a serious expression ...   maybe--- just maybe ...

ken

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 24 September 2021

"Lead" is not difficult to obtain.  Cheap "lead" is a matter of luck.  I follow several forums and people new to casting and reloading display different attitudes.  One fellow felt it should just fall into his lap without even getting out and meeting people.  He made a lot of noise about going out the next weekend and would report back with his treasures.  Turns out he never even went. 

Others will try and may or may not have success.  Those might get a care package or a sweet heart deal on a box of lead. Once a person actually gets out, works on a source and gets started,  they start having success.  Those are the ones worthy of your time.

 

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Wm Cook posted this 25 September 2021

I am getting old and I’m starting to accept that.

I shoot cast because it’s a hell of a lot harder to shoot .5” groups with cast than it is to shoot in the teens with jacketed. Cast is more of a challenge and a lot of folks want the gratification without the effort.

With today’s 24/7 news cycles and the current passion for high capacity magazines and plastic guns it’s a sign of a new generation and a new way of thinking. Some of the folks that are involved in our sport think the World began when sunshine hit their behind for the first time. That they were anointed with Devine wisdom.

Handloader or Rifle had an article about the Hornet (I think it was K Hornet) in the September issue that I was excited to read. But sadly, at least in my opinion, the “author” spent about an hour on his computer doing enough research to pick up a few names and powders he could sprinkle into the article, then took 30 minutes at the range to report on the half dozen groups he shot with the “new” powders on the market. Sorry for venting. Bill.

A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.

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Dale53 posted this 26 September 2021

JimmyDee;

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I am a SERIOUS reader, and used to read the American Rifleman cover to cover. Unfortunately, these days, not very much. I am a Life Member of the NRA but am no longer terribly interested in the AR.

”Lo, how the mighty are fallen”! Shaking my head…

Dale53

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Eutectic posted this 08 October 2021

Quite frequently I get questions at the range when shooters see me shooting cast.
Why do I do it? Because I can shoot 38's and 45's as cheap as 22 LR.
I can shoot 300 centerfire rifle in an afternoon and not go broke.
How do you get the leading out? It is not there, do you see any in this barrel?
No questions about accuracy, my targets are pretty good.

The real problem is the number of reloaders is pretty slim.
To shoot cast you must first reload, so the cost of start-up is pretty steep.

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JohnForrest posted this 09 October 2021

We should all be helping one or two new shooters each year "get into"  re-loading. 

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Bud Hyett posted this 10 October 2021

We need to take time to instruct the new shooters to help save our sport. At the mature age of 76, I like seeing those youngsters a half-century younger than me at the range. I've recently been asked about shooting cast bullets in AR-15 style rifles. I had to admit I did not know much about this subject. 

In club meetings the last several months, I've been asked by several shooters to teach reloading and casting. The members of both Boeing Employees Rifle and Pistol Club and the Kenmore Range realize the shortages, and that Alice and I continue shooting. The primer/powder shortage is the only item I cannot address for them since they will not get mine.

I tell them there will two four-hour sessions, the first one where I instruct them and a follow-up where they teach me as a check to see what they have learned. I tell them there is an initial investment in equipment, but you will produce bullets for many years. I also tell them they can see the equipment that I now use and avoid the added cost of the gradual buildup that I had as I added better equipment. 

At the last BERP meeting, I showed the videos of this year's National Tournament with emphasis on the wind flags. Then I told them out shooting  prairie dogs, you experience the same kind of wind. Competition has the benefit of making much more aware of the wind. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 October 2021

well

there was a decent movie called " Winchester 73 " ... i was thrilled the first time i got to shoot a genuine Winchester 73 ...

i doubt and don't care if there is a movie called " Mossberg 715 AR15 " ....

******************

but i am hoping that Lee is simply selling more molds than they can make ... and not just devoting all their capacity to turning out 223 and 6.5 creedmore dies ...

interesting times ...   ken

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John Alexander posted this 26 October 2021

JimmyDee,

I think you can relax.  I have always been skeptical  of "end of world" predictions and been right so far.

For instance, people have been saying for at least 35 years that cast bullet shooting and the CBA in particular will soon be gone  because all the old coots were dying off. Or some THEY were going to stop making _____ . Or THEY were going to outlaw _____. Well guess what? The old coots did die off, but here we still are.  At this year's nationals we had 8 first time entries, at least 3 of them under thirty.  Eventually some of those black rifle shooters will, shall we say, "mature" and look for an adult shooting sport.

As far as not being able to get guns, equipment, or supplies, Ric's principle applies here "follow the money" As long as somebody can make a buck by  providing things somebody wants to buy they will.  It's called capitalism.

John

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