Cast Bullet myths

  • 719 Views
  • Last Post 19 January 2022
shootcast posted this 16 January 2022

Recent discussion on neck tension and case capacity being important to some has me asking another myth for practical shooting. Whether you are new to cast Bullet shooting or seasoned. We rely on written published information from major sources. In these manuals I have read statements such as, cast bullets are very uniform in weight. Well filled out bullets varying from the average weight by more than 0.2 grains should be considered a minor defect. Variations of more than 0.5 grains should be considered a major defect. Most of us would agree that this makes sense. Have you wondered does this apply to all cast bullets? Think about this. That statement most likely was determined using a specific weight/ caliber bullet. For argument sake probably 30 caliber. Kinda in the middle of caliber and weight. A 0.5 grain from average here seems like pretty good advice. On the other hand a .05 grain on 22 caliber probably not a good idea. Light bullets would suggest voids or air pockets. Unbalanced causing flyers and such. Casting temperature also changes weight.

In yet another manual under powders title. While not actually fired at targets, all accuracy loads have potential for producing outstanding accuracy since uniform ballistics is critical to accuracy on target.You cannot have one without the other. Most of us would agree and assume this is correct. After all a precisely weighed Bullet leaving the muzzle at precisely the same speed will hit the target at precisely the same spot. Really, it might but that depends on more.  We all strive to make our ammo as top notch as we can. Why, because we are all looking for that one hole group. Although I’m not arguing the above statements I have found they are only general statements. You may find the extra effort only makes you think your doing better. 

 

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • John Alexander
  • David R.
Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
John Alexander posted this 18 January 2022

Another myth -- Shooting a series of five shot groups each with a slightly increased powder charge over the one before in a ladder test can find a "sweet spot". This is a myth because finding the optimum load for a rifle can't be done with individual five shot groups. They vary way too much from one group to the next to be reliable.

John

Attached Files

Bud Hyett posted this 18 January 2022

I know this is probably a minority opinion, however, I hold it anyway.

The early 1990's saw an increase in benchrest rifle accuracy often attributed to the 6mm PPC cartridge. Not to denigrate the 6mm PPC cartridge, but there was also a positive change in optic coatings and windage/elevation adjustment, stocks, chambering,  cartridge cases, rifle barrels, and actions at this time. The cumulative effect drove the accuracy game to new lows (smaller groups). This drove the rifle makers to offer better actions and barrels, eventually to even offer better stocks.

As cast bullet shooters today, we benefit from these improvements for all classes. You can still get a bad rifle, but the chances are lowered. I remember the 1960's when a rifle that shot sub-minute was cherished.  A Remington 700 in .222 Remington gave you the best chance to have an accurate rifle. Today, many rifles of several brands can be worked to this standard with a little tinkering. Even the Plain Base rifles, most of which are patterned on single shots, have better barrels, are built on better machinery, and chambered with better tools.

The shooter must get a repeatable load, adjust the components, then work to learn the rifle's eccentricities. There is no magic button to push. Standardize on one lot of alloy, one primer, one seating depth, one powder charge, straight back trigger pull, correct scope parallax settings, scope adjustment on the rifle to have proper cheek weld, rifle setting on the bags, all of which are factors. Once the shooter learns the rifle, then the shooter goes back to further tailor the load.

Then back out to the range for more trigger time. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 16 January 2022

I think it is pretty clear to anyone with an once of skepticism in their body that CB shooters are  weighed down with a ton of myths about what affects cast bullet accuracy -- almost all without decent testing to support them. We seem to be afflicted with the idea that blind belief in handed down "needed procedures" overrides actual testing that shows they are baloney, to use the technical term,  

An operating BS detector and willingness to do a little testing are the most important accuracy tools a CB shooter can have.

I think the title of your thread and your last sentence are entirely appropriate. I hope posters will nominate their favorite CB myth.

John

 

 

Attached Files

Tom Acheson posted this 18 January 2022

I found sections of the following over on a different forum…


All of us will get a bigger bang for our buck getting quality range time, paying attention to the conditions, develop muscle memory so you can tell when you are out of position and be consistent in everything you do. Just getting the feel of the rifle, as well the position to reinforce muscle memory. With respect to follow through, once the shot has been released see what state your hands are in. After recoil is finished, if you find that your grip feels exactly the same as it did before the shot went off, then all could be good. 

 

It is important to have control over your trigger. Shoot the one rifle as much as you can, so that you develop the muscle memory needed to exactly control that trigger. Bouncing about between different triggers makes it more difficult to become a master of the one. At the trigger break, one can see all the mistakes , adjust for them and commit those things to muscle memory that are often covered up by recoil and muzzle report. 

 

It's easy to get into the bad habit of relaxing when the shot goes off which pretty much means poor follow through. We need to spend a lot of time working on our position, grip, and cheek weld.
And, most importantly, you will only know your own level of improvement when you compete against other shooters in competition. Because in a match there are no do overs. Only scores.

 

You cannot weigh, measure, trim, bump, stat read, etc. your way into the winner’s circle. It all boils down to trigger time and believing what the target tells you. We need to realize when good enough is good enough.

 

 

Tom

 



 

 

 

 

 

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 17 January 2022

I liked the term "outliers" as those are just the shots that are away from the denser core of the group. 

Attached Files

Ross Smith posted this 16 January 2022

OK: Bullets can fly! (or soar) Thus negating gravity. We should come up with a different word for our "fliers".

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • RicinYakima
  • Bud Hyett
RicinYakima posted this 16 January 2022

Weighing powder charges closer than 1/2 grain in CB rifle ammo will make a difference on the target. 

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • David Reiss CBA Membership Director
  • Bud Hyett
OU812 posted this 17 January 2022

Matching twist rate to bullet weight is a myth

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • RicinYakima
  • Bud Hyett
David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 18 January 2022

Fiddling with bullet weights to within a 1/10 of a grain, orientating cartridge position, etc. will obtain better accuracy than spending your time at the shooting bench.  

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • RicinYakima
  • John Alexander
John Alexander posted this 19 January 2022

Bud,

I don't believe this is a minority opinion? I think you are right on and I expect that most experienced rifle shooters would agree with most of what you say.  The details of exactly how to do some things would probably generate some discussion.

John

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • RicinYakima
  • Bud Hyett
Tom Acheson posted this 17 January 2022

It is interesting to discuss the many variables of loading practices, chamber dimensions, bullet fit, lube choice, brass prep, brass brand, primer size, primer and powder choice, etc.

Here’s a myth…fliers. When we accuse a shot of being a flier, we fail to find out why and then correct the error.

Fliers are shooter error, inconsistent bench technique, mis-read wind conditions, shooter concentration, etc.

Tom

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
John Alexander posted this 17 January 2022

I agree with Tom about what might be called "true fliers". I would call "true fliers" a shot that enlarge say a 5-shot group at least maybe 100 percent or enlarges a ten shot group at least about 50%. We ought to try and case down the cause and correct.

I don't think it is possible to set that limit exactly at any particular percent increases -- but damage to the group has to be a lot to be sure it is a true flier and not just the nature of group to usually have one shot "out" of the neat 4 or 9 shot group. Joe B. would probably disagree with me on the percentage increase.

Most "fliers" that enlarge a 5-shot group less than 50% are probably just the nature of groups, where, except for rare perfectly round groups, one shot has to be the worst. Groups from machine rest with near perfect ammo have about the number and degree of these ordinary "fliers" as our groups -- they are just smaller and hard to see.  If this sounds strange, see articles on this in TFS #221, 223, and 229. Look at Larry Lancaster's 20 shot group very carefully.

I agree with Ross. We need better terms for those bullet holes we don't like to see.

John

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
RicinYakima posted this 17 January 2022

That is what I was thinking, as I shoot 99% of the time .308 Win and larger cases up to .450 Watts in rifles.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Shuz posted this 17 January 2022

Ric, your statement probably holds true with large capacity cases. But I question if it holds true with small capacity cases like the .22 Hornet.

Attached Files

Ross Smith posted this 19 January 2022

Here's another: Ugly bullets don't shoot well.   I don't shoot them in my bench guns, but the 30-30 gets batch run bullets.

Attached Files

Close