Bullet Flight
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- Last Post 25 December 2020
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Seems to confirm the theory of a bullet "going to sleep" at a certain distance. Interesting, Squid Boy
"Squid Pro Quo"
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One degree of angle! Past 20 feet one degree starts becoming quite large. I think the video is somewhat misleading.
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"One degree of angle! Past 20 feet one degree starts becoming quite large. I think the video is somewhat misleading."
I agree
LMG
Concealment is not cover.........
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... maybe one minute, not one degree ... of angle ...
so at 25 yards, i am going to get a 1/2 to 3/4 inch group from spiraling effect alone ... maybe with a long bullet ... i would like to see more from these guys ..
ken
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interesting. bullet velocity, length, rate of spin, and distance to poi all come into play. all this time i thought my groupings were due to my poor trigger control and eyesight. it may also be a reason my H&R buffalo classic 45/70 shoots so well at distance.
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I thought I read that the video was made by Berger Bullets. As jacketed go, they are known for their accuracy so there may be something too it. Also, one degree may have been used to make the video show better. Hard to say. I'll stick with what Mann wrote for now. Squid Boy
"Squid Pro Quo"
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Dr. Mann did the same type of experiment at his range. First he sighted in and secured a rifle in an iron rest and then erected targets to shoot through on the way to the target. He surveyed the path to assure the centerline was central for each target. When one considers the many centerlines involved in the barrel, the bullet, the crown. the load, it is a miracle we shot as well as we do. Interesting the manpower needed then versus computing power today.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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Just the work involved in precisely setting up a square of paper every foot or so for a hundred yards gives you an idea of Dr. Mann's determination. Building a tunnel to prevent wind effects for that range is also amazing. I had to read the book three times to get a better understanding of what they were trying to accomplish and I think the damaged bullet shooting was the most enlightening. I may just take it down and go through it again. Best wishes to all for a Merry Christmas, Squid Boy
"Squid Pro Quo"
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My first copy of Mann's book was a Wolfe Publishing copy. It was really fuzzy and hard to read let alone see the pictures. Then by luck I found a 1941 edition that was reprinted with the original glass plate pictures and plates. Mann was very wealthy and his daughter saved everything from the book. But she did destroy all of his later work so no one could use it.
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Since you brought that up I remember reading about the procedure. A friend of mine let be borrow his book several years ago. I read thru it and was amazed at the hands on work he did. We can’t duplicate that with computers. Thanks for bringing that up.
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Hello to all,
Since I'm not a physicist or engineer I won't try to explain the facts and opinions in the discussions of this post. I don't know about low velocity cast bullet loads but there are barrels that do something way down the range that cause high velocity jacketed bullets to start flying very well, and I suspect cast bullets are affected the same. The fellow at Beanfield Rifles described it as putting the bullet to sleep. I can't remember how many of his high quality barrels were said to perform as such. Seems like only 1 in 7. Don't hold me to that number, because i think that it was fewer than 1 in 7. I have built several rifles and have only had one which seems to perform in that manner. I''m speaking of a Model 70 Winchester re-barreled with a Shilen barrel and chambered in 22-250. When I got the rifle to a test basis, I took it to the 100 yd range and was kind of disappointed in the 100 yd performance. About a month later I took it to the prairie dog fields and man did I get a surprise when I started shooting out past 200 yds. Something happened. The consistent accuracy at long distance couldn't be explained by me and at the time I had never heard of barrels that would put the bullet to sleep, but evidently I own one of them.
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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interesting, i hadnt heard of that happening. i have found that flat based, round nose bullets can be more accurate at a specific distance than a boat tail bullet. perhaps a heavy-for-caliber bullet could be more stable at greater distances. i will have to load up a few 8mm, 3006 and 45/70 to try out in the spring. best regards, john
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Look at a clock. 1 minute of time = 6 degrees.
Merry Christmas.
joe b.
"One degree of angle! Past 20 feet one degree starts becoming quite large. I think the video is somewhat misleading."
I agree
LMG
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It might have something to do with barrel stresses when made. Some barrel makers stress reliever before or after rifling. I'm a firm believer in cryogenic treatment for cutting tools and see no reason having a barrel treated doesn't hurt a thing. It isn't expensive and I've had several done. But, I did no comparison test before and after so can't claim that it will help accuracy. But I was more interested in making the barrel last longer. I had my 74 sharps treated with the rifle complete with out the wood of course. Mainly to make all the receiver parts tougher.
Shooting cast bullets at the speed we do probably doesn't cause much vibration along the barrel. But that is another "theory" to ponder. One could usually find a sweet spot at a certain spot on the barrel when shooting off cross stick though.
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barrel vibration with cast bullets ... tuners worked very well on our stiff 20 inch long 1 inch diameter at the muzzle 22 lr barrels at only 1100 fps ... so i bet our 38-55 barrels are jumping around..
however, i don't think vibrating barrels cause bullets to fly in a spiral path ... it just causes different centers of the spiral paths ..
ken
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They have a spiral path for the same reason a pitcher can throw a curve ball.
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