Browning 3 Shot

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  • Last Post 24 December 2022
Wineman posted this 14 December 2022

I inherited a Browning A5 three shot 16 gauge. It is not a Belgian Browning but an "American Browning" made in the early 1940's for Browning by Remington. The Belgian FN factory was under new management at the time and Remington who had the licensed Model 11 got to make Browning labeled shotguns until the kerfuffle in Europe ended. It is labeled Browning, says St Louis on the barrel and has some rudimentary scroll work on the side, and has a magazine cut off. It also has Model 11 features, like pins in the handguard, flat wire recoil spring, no cut out to get the bolt pins out etc. It is labeled on the hand guard "3-Shot". It does not have the "speed load" magazine carrier and you need to put a shell in the chamber first. The magazine tube is ~13" long and looks like it could easily hold four rounds. However, it only holds two rounds. There is no plug. My guess is that there is some type of constriction in the tube that stops the follower. If that is the case it is very hard to see, but there is no way to put more than two shells in the magazine. If anyone has more information I am eager to hear how it was done.

I always had an thing for the odd ducks so it is a nice fit. I just put a new recoil spring and action spring, and friction rings in it and cleaned up the stock with a Tru-Oil finish. It appears to be improved cylinder (**-) with a 26" barrel and is chambered for 2.75" shells. It amazes me the work and craftsmanship it took to build these guns. That all the parts worked in a very complicated arrangement is a testament to JMB and his vision.

Thanks,

Dave

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SouthDakota4440 posted this 14 December 2022

Greetings Dave.  An interesting post you made.  I have a 3-shot Remington Model 11 Sportsman 16 gauge that originally belonged to my father.  The shotgun was made about 1934, with a 28 inch barrel, modified choke.  And is a "dead ringer" for the Browning Model A5 made by Remington you describe. It is my understanding that the 3-shot capability was made for compliance to early federal waterfowl regulations.  This did not pertain to all Model 11's, just the Sportsman.  Most Model 11's were 5 or 6 shot models. I had heard of the Browning Model A5 by Remington, but was not aware of the 3-shot feature. Like you, in cleaning these old shotguns, I am amazed at the design, milling, fabrication and fit of the the parts....no stampings or alloys used. Very solid guns in their own right.

Best Regards, 

Marc

 

 

 

Marc

mm

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Wineman posted this 14 December 2022

Marc,

Glad I was able to join the "16 club". According to Remington records it was made in September of 1942. It has the solid rib with a dull silver front bead. An interesting note is that Remington scooped Browning by offering a 20 gauge in the line up. Apparently Browning (FN Built) A5's did not have a 20 gauge until 1958. 16 gauge ammo is a bear to find though, selection is poor and the price is always higher.

From what I can glean, parts could be an issue, most of the internals are Model 11ish so finding the right part may take a while. I don't hunt so I doubt it will get much use. I may try it out on Sporting Clays, but O/U's are usually the gun of choice, with two different chokes.

I don't know much about waterfowl regulations but the1930's both in North America and Europe the over harvesting was a real issue. At first methods of restriction such as what we have (permanent changes to the gun) were enforced but then the use of a removable "plug" was adopted. I think gauge might also have been restricted to 10 gauge or smaller. I was on a site where the author lamented the loss of the 8 gauge for goose hunting, especially now with steel shot.

Dave

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 14 December 2022

I have wished to find a sweet 16 Browning. Never have. In college I bought a single shot Wards Hercules 16 ga. Hunting with it for years until buying a Remington Sportsman 12 from my dad. It had a repaired broken stock that I replaced. That one was passed on to my oldest son who has been quite successful with it. A few years ago I was in a LGS and found a Wards side by side 16ga. with a tiny price attached. Walked out the door a C note lighter.... hunted that for a few years. During that time finally spent the coin to get a Mec 650 jr. in 16. Found that Ballistics Products carried primed hulls and wads and everything else a shotgunner would need or want. Now I'm set up to load 16 ga. Found a green dot bismuth load for waterfowling #5 shot.  

Couple summers ago finally upgraded to a Savage Stevens O/O in 16. Have used it ever since. I have even dropped geese with it.

Hulls and other components are available and you can often find reloaders on e bay sometimes for reasonable prices. Although not as convenient as buying factory shells neither is casting your own bullets for rifle and pistol.... 

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Wineman posted this 15 December 2022

Mark,

Those Sweet 16's are out there but boy prying one loose from the owner is tough. Art's in Missouri listed one today and has a sale pending at $3,250 for a 1966 SW16 wow!

Yes I have looked at the BP website and for sure if make a serious foray into shotgunning clay, I will make a move. My last shotgun reloading was with a 12 gauge Lee Loader sometime in the mid 1970's. I seem to recall, that there was still a sizable amount of paper hulls but I can't swear by that.

I just picked up two boxes of Winchester low base #6 Rabbit and Squirrel from the early 80's (1983 by the box code) from a yard sale. You never know what you will find on any given day.

Thanks for the input. Did you ever know Charlie Hotlzinger? He ran Holtzinger Fruit in Yakima but lived in Ellensburg. He is gone now but I worked for his winery (Covey Run) from 1987-2000.

Dave

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 15 December 2022

I did not know him. Hauled a few loads I am sure from his warehouses though back in the early 90's when I hauled apple containers.

I remember the brand Covey Run. Do you still reside in Washington? I could part with a box or two if you were interested.

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Wineman posted this 17 December 2022

Mark,

Thanks for the generous offer. Unfortunately I have not lived there since 2000. I do get up to the Dalles as my daughter is a winemaker in that area. If I manage to make my way up to your area I will definitely reach out.

Funny story, we lived in Zillah and my mom had come up from Southern California to make a family trip to Leavenworth for the Christmas cheer probably 1994 or 1995. As we passed through Ellensburg, my wife realizes she still has her bedroom slippers on and needs a pair of shoes! My memory is hazy but I think it was Bi-Mart that we stopped at. Apparently I rushed to get out of the house, and with a baby or two, my mom, and the usual confusion she never put on her traveling shoes.

I have this plan where I could buy primed hulls, wads etc. from BP and then roll crimp the cases for a fairly low investment to start out with.

Dave

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SouthDakota4440 posted this 20 December 2022

Greetings Dave,

 

That's a great story! It's amazing what happens during Christmas travel with so much going on.  Your "BP plan" for 16 gauge loading is well founded...I've been doing that since the late 80's with Ballistic Products.  Unfortunately, due to supply chain issues from Europe, it can be a bit tough to procure 16 gauge hulls from them. Most of their hulls are either Fiocchi (Italian) or Cheddite (French).  Wad selection is good.  As you are probably aware, because the older 16 gauge shotguns have fixed barrel chokes made when card wads where used in shells, using more modern plastic wads for 16 gauge loads an older mod or full choked barrels can create a super full choke pattern...its one heck of a trap pattern though...lol. Any way, I like to load the card wads for the old guns, roll crimp, etc.

It is an interesting loading project for the great old guns.  Best Regards and Merry Christmas.

Marc 

 

 

 

 

 

mm

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Wineman posted this 20 December 2022

Marc,

Thanks! The other one was with a 6 month old, we had to have Horizon Air, stop an engine and let us on the plane. Not today though but then people would cut you some slack for not knowing how to travel with a baby. Lots of Californians moving to SD. My Senior Winemaker lived in SD before moving to Chicago. I plan to take it out tomorrow and toss some lead to see how it runs after new springs etc.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Dave

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Wineman posted this 24 December 2022

Well I was able to take it for the first spin. New recoil and action springs, the action is clean. I picked up a couple boxes of Winchester low base 2 1/2 Dram 1 oz. On heavy load setting, no ejection and did not cock the hammer. I added a couple more drops of motor oil to the mag tube and put the steel friction ring between the spring and receiver (light load setting). Still no ejection but this time the hammer would cock. Plan is to be sure the barrel extension has more lube as well as the bolt for next time. The chamber is smooth and the shells fall out. The action spring tube was cleaned before installing the new spring (it was not very dirty). I checked and with an empty shell in the chamber, and butt on the carpet, shoving the barrel by hand locks the bolt back and when the barrel returns, the shell is ejected. I don't think there is an issue with the gun at this point. Those are pretty light loads and today I found some 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 oz and some 3 1/4 dram 1 1/8 loads at the LGS. Will report back when I have tried these out. I may also pull the steel friction ring completely (shorten the spring so to speak).

Dave

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