Best factory production rifle for regional matches

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Last Post 11 September 2023
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cbshtr posted this 22 May 2023

I will soon be receiving some inheritance money and would like to buy a quality production rifle to start competing in local matches after a 20 year absence. My budget is no more than $1500 for rifle and scope. I have an old Tasco 36X scope that I may be able to use, leaving more money for the rifle. I'm looking at heavy barreled guns to help with recoil.

The models I have been looking at are the Savage 110 Magpul Hunter, Savage 110 Tactical, Bergara B14 HMR and the Tikka T3X CTR. The two Savage rifles are supposed to come with factory blueprinted actions from what I've read. All of these have good reviews and accuracy reports with the Savages being less expensive. I have no experience with any of these and know of no one who has one. I'm more interested in the shorter barreled tactical style rifles over the long barreled varmint/ bench rest style guns. Of the guns mentioned which would be the best competitive option. I'm open to other suggestions as well within the parameters mentioned.

I'm leaning towards a .308 Win caliber only because I'm already set up with everything 30 caliber. All the rage today is the 6.5 Creedmoor but with the 8" twist I would seem to think it would be difficult to get competitive accuracy. Please correct me if I'm wrong but looking at match reports they rarely show up. I've seen a few .243's and .223's but mostly .308's. I'm open to suggestions.

Any information and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Robert Homan

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Lee Guthrie posted this 22 May 2023

My observations on Savage rifles. Some people express almost mystical adoration for Savage. Me, no way. Maybe it's just bad luck following me, but .....

I bought two different new Savage Model 12s (a BVSS and an F class), both in .308, that were advertised to be tack driving demons. I've had lever action Marlins shoot as good. We tried everything to get them to shoot. Tried all kinds of loads with both jacketed and cast. Tried letting a couple other shooters use them (two who went through Army sniper school and one who competes internationally). Did everything except replace barrels and do machine work. Nope. Still wouldn't shoot. On the same day several friends and I were range testing -- BEST group from the Model 12 that was supposed to be F class competition was 5 shots into 1 3/8 inches at 100 yards, using same ammo that I shot through a friends 40x with a 5 shot .41 inch group on the same day. When I sent it back to Savage it was returned with the notation that it shot within factory specs.

Your mileage may vary, but I will probably never buy a new in the box Savage again. If you find a used proven Savage maybe.

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Tom Acheson posted this 23 May 2023

My experience with a Savage Model 12 Varminter Low Profile in .308 is different than others have experienced. Not sure if it is a BVSS. The twist rate is 1:10, with a 26” barrel.

I bought mine new in 2007. The decision was based on that model’s track record in the CBA Production Rifle category in our matches. Odd that I picked it up the day the Minneapolis bridge collapsed.

Various loads were tried. I eventually settled on 27.0-grains VV N-135. The bullet was an LBT 312-185, 50/50 lino/mono, sized 0.311” and “bumped”. The best 100-yard match result was produced 25 August 2011. The small 10-round group was 0.649” and the 10-round aggregate was 0.947” and the score was 198-5X. I haven’t checked lately but those numbers might still be Minnesota State CBA records.

If I bump the bullets and use VV powder, the rifle does very well. Varget powder also did fairly well. Have to add that my Weaver T-36 scope works really well with this rifle.

But full disclosure. After the last time the rifle was used in a match (August 2021) it sat until last weekend and I did poorly. But it was the first time I used 4198 powder, the bullets were not bumped and I learned the cases need to be full length sized. Not a rifle problem.

I spend most of my match energy trying to get an XP-100 to shoot and ignore my rifles. However, I do enjoy shooting my Remington Rolling Block in .38-55 with an old Unertl 24X scope.

Hope this helps!

Tom

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Tom Acheson posted this 25 May 2023

Maybe a short comment on neck tension, that sometimes dreaded CBA debated concept.

Lightly tap a sized, lubed, bumped bullet into the throat. Measure that to determine the cartridge OAL. Then load a round 0.025” longer than your calculated OAL. Close the bolt. Here is where the neck tension enters. If too loose, the bullet will be pushed back into the case as the bolt closes. What we want is the neck being tight enough to resist the movement of the bullet. When that happens you are pushing the bullet into the throat, slightly engraving the bullet. You can feel that resistance as you close the bolt.

The overall goal is developing the concentricity of the bore and the bullet.

Now the rest is up to you, your choice of powder and, most importantly, your bench technique.

FWIW

Tom

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Larry Gibson posted this 27 May 2023

Yes, Remington did make 7.62x39 cases with SR primer pockets. Oddly, just last week I picked up 4 Winchester 7.62x39 cases at the local range which also have SR primer pockets. All my other Winchester cases have LR primer pockets.

I have a nice little InterArms Mk X Mini Mauser chambered in 7.62x39. I've done about everything to enhance accuracy short of a rebarrel. Its accuracy capability with cast bullets is not competitive as it is a consistent 1 1/2-2 moa rifle at best with 10 shot groups. Still a fun little rifle.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Tom Acheson posted this 27 May 2023

In the early 90’s I had a silhouette handgun made by MOA, chambered in 7.62x39. All I used were cast bullets. My memory and scorecards say the gun was quite accurate but the machinations you went through to load, fire and unload drove me nuts. It was a very “busy” gun.

Tom

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Tom Acheson posted this 31 May 2023

I’m in the same boat as John. In my .22 BR in a Lapua 6BR Norma case, I use either 7.5 of WST or 8.5 of 4756. Both are a long ways from filling the case.

The “holy grail” of jacketed bench rest shooters was a short, fat case, with powder filled to the base of the bullet and a small primer. It is not uncommon to see almost everyone at a match using the same powder, the same amount of powder, the same primer and the same bullet. Almost a firing line filled with a bunch of copy cats!

Tom

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cbshtr posted this 03 June 2023

Ken, once I get the gun I'll have to have you give me points on what I'm supposed to bed. I bedded a Springfield O3A3 years ago with success. Once I get the gun I'll disassemble it to get an idea what I'm dealing with, then pick your brain on how to fix it. I want to eliminate any variables up front, before starting like you said.

Robert Homan

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John Alexander posted this 04 June 2023

We have no rule against threading at the muzzle.

We do have a rule against recoil reducers screwed on to those threads.

It would be nice on the ears if everybody had threading and a suppressor. There are unsubstantiated claims that a suppresser improves accuracy, but the same is said about the little rubber thingies that you put on the barrel at the magic point or points. My opinion is that this type of wishful thinking comes from believing that one or two groups will tell you the truth -- they won't.

John

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cbshtr posted this 24 May 2023

Since starting this thread I just remembered that I ordered a 30 caliber gas check maker almost 2 months ago. I forgot all about it. Ship date keeps being pushed back. So it looks like I made the choice of caliber. I do have several molds including a Eagan MX3.30BR, Saeco 301 and 315, Lyman 314299, Ideal 31141 and 311413. I'm figuring at least one of these should show promise.

Robert Homan

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cbshtr posted this 24 May 2023

I should mention that the Tasco World Class 36X scope I have is from the nineties and has Japanese glass with 1/8" movement. From what I remember it was pretty clear and accurate adjustments.

Robert Homan

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Lucky1 posted this 24 May 2023

Bud is right on with "no absolutes". The bell curve on quality has slid together so the average quality is better than ever but there can still be stars and dogs in every brand. Case in point. A local gun smith/dealer ordered 6 1894 Marlins for a number of cowboy action shooters when Marlin still had decent quality. 3 were so-so, 2 pretty good and one was stellar. Almost consecutive serial numbers. Yes, he shot everyone of them and kept the best one for himself. This was with factory ammo and no tuning but does show the randomness of manufacturing. Personally, I screw up the shot far more than I can ever blame the rifle.

Scott Ingle

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 May 2023

a couple years ago JoeB here did a fairly impressive " study " of cast in 223 versus 22-250 ... including rechambering the same barrel from 223 to 22-250 ... a long test series, with several barrels and

his results pointed to the 22-250 being a better cast bullet shooter ... most of we on-lookers were shocked at this ... and of course, JohnA here has been terrorizing hunter class for years with his 223 ... ( in a supernatural Tikka, btw ) ....

however, at the least, JoeB's test points to larger case capacity than absolutely needed might not a bad thing ...

*************************

a few years ago some manufacturers made some rifles in 6 ppc ... here is a link to a discussion on this >>

factory 6 ppc rifles

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remember, the early favorite killer 222 cartridge for benchrest was replaced by the even-more-killer 6 ppc because the ppc case seems to be more forgiving of load variation.... " you can't go wrong " ...

just some more thoughts ... but golly a production class Sako in 6 ppc might be cause for both jealousy and admiration ... and although we admirably say we compete to impress ourselves ... impressing our buddies does add a little honey to the situation ... heh ...

ken

oh, in addition there have been several production rifles in 7.62 x 39, which is a plain jane PPC case ... and a cousin of the 30 Kern cast favorite ... and easier to find than a 6 PPC Sako i bet ... probably couldn't go wrong with a CZ bolt gun in 7.62 x 39 ... or even a Ruger American ... hmmmm ... could a guy have TWO production rifles ?? ... THREE ... oh my ...

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RicinYakima posted this 27 May 2023

IMHO, an issue is the single set trigger. Mine will shoot much smaller groups with the trigger set, but larger if you use the standard trigger. I think it is a lock time and trigger vibration issue with the design of the action. Cast bullet loads below 1600 f/s are iffy with the unset trigger.

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Tom Acheson posted this 03 June 2023

Good to learn that you made a decision and took action…,great!

Will be interesting to see your follow-up comments.

Tom

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 03 June 2023

looks as though you have made a very interesting choice ... always fun with a new rifle finding out how " lucky " you were ... and this rig certainly checks a lot of boxes to attract the more cheerful fairies ...

*******

I see they use a bedding block sysytem ... i gotta advise to not even waste a primer until you do a serious bedding upgrade ... not complicated, but a mass production bedding block is not likely rock steady enough for serious competition. a tablespoon or so of Devcon will get you a great fit and save chasing weird target results.

be sure to keep us informed on your progress ...

ken

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 13 June 2023

...you can't turn a factory Savage barrel into a Lilja ... but you can improve it ..

1) sometimes the chambering creates little burrs in the throat ... these can be helped by a mild " fire lapping " ... just fire about 6 or 8 jacketed loads, the bullets roll- impregnated with 600 or 800 grit compound .Clover brand is good ... JB is too mild ....loaded to about 2200 fps ... stop after these few and don't do a full 100 shot firelap program as you used to read about ... if 8 shots doesn't fix it ... it wasn't broken, and no harm done ...

2) if you have a spare three hours you can do a hand lap ... not complicated and again, maybe not needed but you will have covered that possibility and besides, it will give you the satisfaction of doing what you can. Competition is big on Zen, and believing you gained a little edge might just make it a reality !!

basically lapping is just using a dedicated Dewey rod and pushing it through just to the end and pouring hot lead down the muzzle onto the patch tip ... this is your lap slug, perfecly fit to the barrel. push slug out partway and pour 800 grit on it. pull and push the slug through the barrel until it gets loose and then do a fresh slug ... repeat 3 or 4 times, and then thoroughly clean the barrel. may improve cleaning, may improve accuracy ... but remember ... Harry Pope was big on lapping his barrels. note he liked to leave the muzzle end a tad tighter than the rest of the barrel. the above mild lapping will only remove about 0.0001, so completely safe.

3) inspect the crown .. if it looks cleanly cut it is ok. it is rare that a new crown is needed ... mostly easy money for gunsmiths to add on ... but is easy to check.

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at some time you should make a soft lead upset image of your chamber and throat. check that your rifling lands all start evenly ... this is important for accuracy ....... and then also keep this upset to help you set seating depth for various bullets.

hope this helps

ken

and yes, i would lap in your scope mounts ... I have a special reamer made for that and I am impressed at how much is cut off some rings on factory rigs. i could think i might bind up the turret components.

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John Alexander posted this 22 May 2023

I have two skinny barreled, 6 pound Tikkas and both will shoot strings of five shot groups that average .75" with JB at 100 yards. Not that you want a skinny barrel but it demonstrates the quality. One rifle has done well in CBA competition. Both with 8 inch twists. The downside of faster than needed twists is more theoretical than real -- unless you cast really terrible bullets.

Your 36X Tasco scope should do fine and if it's optics are as good as mine they will be better than most of the competition.

The 308 is boring but the logical choice to start with.

John

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 May 2023

golly, eat my heart out here ... you are going to have so much fun ...

a couple weeks ago there was a decent discussion on competition and I thought it was most interesting as to what a person's goal is to want to compete ... fun, glory, the challenge, finding out how really good you are ... etc. etc. ...oh, and all above !! ...

if for fun, I would go with a Savage class rig and compete against myself and see how good I could get with the equipment and talent I bring to matches as I progress ... there is lots of luck in factory rifles, so it could be fun achieving a level above your prognosticated stature ... and with the cheaper Savage, you might try a few different screw-in legal * production * barrels ... after all, production classes are somewhat of an equipment testing excercise.

if " competing " is actually spelled " Winning thru Obsession " in your view of things, I would have to go with the Tikka ... just because statistically that gives you the best chance of a great rig. ( ok, I have 2 of 308 Tikka , the old Tikka 55 ... deer rifles, but they live in smileyville with me ... 1 pound triggers, straight actions, tight chambers ... dang ! .. ) ...

above is without consideration of the rules ... are those guns legal in production ?? ...

*********************

i have to mention, again if winning is a must, i would look for a great trigger, a well made action and a great barrel ... Tikka statistically has these. need to do a bedding job, but i think that is legal.

next, I actually would go for a lighter bullet than a 180 gr 308 ...... probably 6mm or 6.5mm ... to reduce recoil on the bench ...next I would look at which stock will be stable in the bags ...

in big matches, the nasty 200 yard targets are a big deal ... your longer bullets which need faster twists are a real big deal ... I would concentrate on my 200 yards shooting most of all. check out in the match reports here how many national shooters wipe out at 200 after they are in the running at 100.

boring as it might be, the 6.5 creedmore looks pretty good for the 200 yard game. you are probably in for some custom molds anyway ... and you don't need exotic loading equipment for excellent match ammo ... $50 of Lee dies will get you in the top flight ...

just some thoughts, enjoy the trip and keep us posted ... ken

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John Alexander posted this 22 May 2023

i have not had good luck with 223 Savage varmint rifles. Had four all had long loose spot in mid half of barrel. I have never heard that claimed for the 30 cal.

However, at least 7 of the thirteen current CBA national records were shot with Savage rifles and Savage rifles have won the production class nationals more than any other rifle for the last 25 years and several overall nationals. I would still buy a Tikka.

John

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Tom Acheson posted this 23 May 2023

Short footnote……

The OP said Regional matches. Regional matches are usually a once a year thing. I hope when the word Regional was used it could have said Local matches. All of us would like to see you out shooting your new rifle frequently, not just once a year!

Tom

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