Accurate 43-214A

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Last Post 18 August 2019

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Bryan Austin posted this 28 July 2019

was able to get to the range this morning to test out my new bullets. My castings are a bit to be desired but over-all I was impressed. For comparison I also shot some 200gr dry lubed, swaged "Magma" design bullets from Bear Creek Supply. They did not perform well for my application but still great for CAS.

I was pleased with the 214's performance with my low quality castings. I have good castings and poor castings but they are all low quality...LOL I have sence shipped the mold to Mark Whyte to use to cast me 500 of his quality bullets (Ed...I will ship some to you to try). I use Mark Whyte's 200gr Bug Lube bullet with great results.

Basically I used the nose of the 43-215C but without a crimp groove. Gave it a slick Ogive radius...more like the Winchester JSP. I used the body of the 427098 with two lube goves for smokeless lube.

Wheel weaights should give 214gr but about a 12BNH mix gives me 217gr!!!

I used black powder lube this time and still got great results @ 100 yards.

I did not chrono my loads but typically Trail Boss gives 1,100fps and 25gr of Reloder 7 about 1,200fps.

With a normal 44-40 "Profile" the 43-214A misses the rifling when chambered in my Marlin 1889 manufactured in 1891...unlike the typical popular Magma design.

Firearm - Uberti Winchester 73' w/Malcolm scope. (giving the Marlin the summer off)
Bullet - Accurate Molds 43-214A 217gr, Tom made for me. Replicated the nose of John Kort's 43-215C (no crimp groove) and the body (two lube groove) of the 427098. Although I am using black powder lube....I plan on using smokless powder lub down the road. After these groups....my not!
Bullet - Bear Creek 200gr Magma, Swaged (powder Coated)
StarLine Brass - New
CCI- 300 Primers

Target - Desk Calendar, no marks...POA center of paper

25 yards, 43-214A
6.4gr Trail Boss
3/4" Group

100 Yards, 43-214A
6.4gr Trail Boss

100 Yards, 43-214A
25gr Reloder 7

100 Yards, Magma, Swaged
6.4gr Trail Boss

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40 ..................................... 44-40 Videos - https://juxxi.com/channel/4440Cartridges

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JeffinNZ posted this 28 July 2019

That group with RL7 is very impressive. Just a couple of stray shots. That could be a bad bullets/pulled shots.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Ed Harris posted this 29 July 2019

Jack,

You might shoot tighter groups with that Malcolm if you pasted newspaper photos of Democrat polititicans in the center of your calendar!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Larry Gibson posted this 13 August 2019

Getting ready to play......with the 44-40 anyway. Don't have that mould and my M73 is a 45 Colt. I've been casting and loading for the 44-40 for some time but only for my revolver, an old model Ruger stainless Vaquero.

Recently I acquired a Cimeron Chiappa M92 carbine in 44-40. It is excellent condition, almost new. I just haven't had the chance to shoot it yet...... In the revolver I've used 4 bullets which I cast myself; Lee's 429-200-RF and TL430-240-SWC along with Lyman's 429215 and 429360. The 429360 doesn't feed in the M92 which is a shame because it's the best PB performer in the revolver. I will be shooting smokeless loads only and if the GC'd 429215 feeds I may develop a "rifle" load for it with in the capabilities of the stout Ruger also.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Ed Harris posted this 14 August 2019

My '92 is an El Tigre. The Rossi found a new home when I got this one:

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Bryan Austin posted this 17 August 2019

I am afraid I am at the end of the line!

This is the best I can do.

43-214A loaded with 25.8gr of Reloder 7
My armature testing...32deg weather produced 10,000psi when testing this load but using John Kort's 43-215C design @ 117gr. Pressures for 80degrees could be upwards to 12,000psi
Uberti Winchester 73'
Macolm Scope

@ 100 YARDS!!!!

My first ten shots were used to adjust the scope.

Target #2 is my first ten shots after first scope adjustment.
Target #3 is the result of three 10 shot groups.

Barrel too hot to hold after 10 shots, allowed to cool between each ten shot group.

Target #2, not yet removed, first scope adjustment

Target #2 as documented

Target #3, not yet removed...(2nd scope adjustment) first ten shot group

Target #3, not yet removed...second ten shot group

Target #3, not yet removed...third ten shot group

Target #3 as documented, 30 shots inside a 4" circle, replicating Doc Pardee's 1875 shots but mine are with smokeless powder.

Target #3 with Target #2 superimposed on top, black marks represent ten shot placements.

All in all, 40 consecutive shots inside a 4" circle @ 100 yards

Larger photos here: https://www.marlinowners.com/team-44-40/595851-accurate-molds-43-214a.html

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40 ..................................... 44-40 Videos - https://juxxi.com/channel/4440Cartridges

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Ed Harris posted this 17 August 2019

Outstanding!

Great Work!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Bryan Austin posted this 28 July 2019

One excuse I have is that I was aiming fir the center of this desk calendar at 100 yards with no reference marks!! The 4" circle was added AFTER the shots were fired.

I would say the problem was the shooter rather than the loads...LOLOLOL

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40 ..................................... 44-40 Videos - https://juxxi.com/channel/4440Cartridges

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Bryan Austin posted this 29 July 2019

LOL, so true!!!!!!

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40 ..................................... 44-40 Videos - https://juxxi.com/channel/4440Cartridges

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Bryan Austin posted this 02 August 2019

I went to the range again this morning to see if I could replicate last weeks targets. Not too bad.
Left, today's targets. Right, last week's targets.

6.4gr of trail boss with both the 43-214A (Redding Roll Crimp) and Origon Trail's "Lazer Cast" Magma design using the RCBS "Cowboy Roll Crimp.

Both Averaged high 960 fps velocities. Accuracy due to any type crimp used can not be proven with this comparison but the results are obvious.
also included (right targets) are last weeks shots.

Targets - 100 Yards

Bullets - 217gr 43-214A and 200gr "Magma" design
Powder - 6.4gr Trail Boss
Brass - Starline (Once Fired)

Primers - CCI 300
4" Circle - Applied after the shots

I used desk calendars. I used tack pins to pin blue bottle caps to the top, bottom left and right to align scope cross hairs. center target represented by the letters "POA"

Cartridges loaded using an RCBS Green Machine

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40 ..................................... 44-40 Videos - https://juxxi.com/channel/4440Cartridges

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Bryan Austin posted this 13 August 2019

This is what they look like when a Pro casts them. Now to see how they shoot!!!

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40 ..................................... 44-40 Videos - https://juxxi.com/channel/4440Cartridges

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 13 August 2019

... i anxiously await your results ... in at least my slacker approach to testing, i am coming to johna's thinking that at the normal 2 to 4 inch results from moderate effort ..... that you really have to distort horribly a bullet to make it fly out of that group.

wrinkles might not count ... or small holes in the nose . my sorted and inspected perfect bullets shoot 2.3 moa .. wrinkled and frosted bullets shoot 2.3 moa ... lathe turned bases shoot 2.2 moa ...

only fitment seems to count in respect to bullets at the 2 moa+ level. how frustrating. johna shoots oval bullets into 1 moa . but we can't give up, we shall remove the scales from our eyes !!

love your rig !! hey i got to shoot a win. 73 in 44-40 when i was a kid ... well worn and very smooth !! and a favorite movie also !!

ken

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Bryan Austin posted this 13 August 2019

One must really do his homework to get better than 4" 10 shot groups at 100 yards with a 44-40...and do so at normal velocities. So far no one else wants to play. Casting gives me fits cause I don't know the technicalities. I really have no desire to start learning......I'll just buy my bullets...LOL. My <poor> castings did much better than I thought they would, just hope these perform at least as good.

44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40 ..................................... 44-40 Videos - https://juxxi.com/channel/4440Cartridges

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 13 August 2019

yep, my remmy 788 bolt gun in 44 mag went about 4 inches... that with 8 different molds, and several commercial cast ... my home cast did better than the commercial. it did about 3 inches with mj though ... anyway it was kinda collectable so i sold it to a 788 guy. since i still have all my 44 mag loader stuff i always thought i might try for a match 44 mag. someday just to see what is possible . or impossible.

ken

oh, i made some swages for wadcutters ... perfect swaged bullets shot 3.9 ... just like the cast ones ... maybe there is yet something we don't know about cast.