9mm PC Leading

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Last Post 10 February 2025

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linoww posted this 28 January 2025

A member in the forum sent me some powder coat bullets to try in .45 and .32 and they worked quite well. I Had some powder a guy had given me years back I think he bought off somebody on the "booooliiit" site so i coated my own bullets. I had good luck in a couple revolvers. I decided to try it in my AK47 of pistols the Ruger P series 9mm.Ugly ,clunky but reliable with about any junk I throw at it.

Bullets were or slightly under .358.Load was 3.8 Greendot dot and 2 range sessions the barrel leaded like you wouldn't believe.I hadn't thought powdercoat was supposed to lead barrels ?

I used the exact same coating procedure that has worked for about three hundred rounds in my revolvers. Some of the loads are in the same velocity range as this 9mm.

Here's a picture of one of my bullets and also one I smashed with a hammer to show that that stuff is not coming off.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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28 Comments

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CBA Member

Idahocaster posted this 29 January 2025

.358 seems on the large size for 9mm. What size are your bullets after powder coating?

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linoww posted this 29 January 2025

bullets are sized after coating and come out .3575. I've shot. 358 in the 9mm Ruger in the past. I just got back from shooting a Beretta 92S with the same loads and same exact results. In fact after about 15 shots the bullets started tipping. Barrel completely full of lead.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Aaron posted this 29 January 2025

I would try .356 and/or Accurate #7 powder. Is your taper crimp too tight?

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Aaron posted this 29 January 2025

It could also be that brand or color from that mfg is just no good for bullets. I have read about that around the posts online.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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99 Strajght posted this 29 January 2025

Try seating the bullet into the lands. The chamber might be so large that blowby is getting around the bullet before it seals. I have had that on older 9mm.

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linoww posted this 29 January 2025

bullet is seated and crimped in separate operation.I just taper crimp enough to have it chamber.

I have eastwood red in the mail today so I'll coat with that. What I have is unkown make but works in revolver and the one 30 caliber plainbase rifle load I tried.

Bullet is seated as long as it will chamber.

I'll try .356 with the ones I have , what the heck.

thanks for input guys.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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lotech posted this 29 January 2025

I have a Beretta 92F I bought new in 1988. I tried many cast bullet designs (about a dozen) and I've gotten best accuracy with an obsolete Lyman .38 Special design (#358212) sized to .359" using app. ww alloy. The round nose bullets weigh 148-150 grains. I use Bullseye powder but HS-6 provides almost the same level of accuracy. No leading. I've used the Bullseye load for years.

My load works equally well in a Walther P-4 (P38 derivative) and a Sig P226. Functioning is 100% reliable. I've had all these guns more than thirty years. However, my cartridges would not function in a friend's H&K. I can't remember for sure if the the problem was overall length, cartridge diameter or both. Diameter is under spec diameter, but barely so.

I size and lube everything in the conventional manner using a Redding/SAECO lubrisizer. I don't know the first thing about coating bullets.

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Coydog posted this 03 February 2025

I was thinking that need to have a larger size bullet, for how it looks like lotech use . I have a 9mm that need to used 358 size the same size I use in my 357 mag wheel guns .

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linoww posted this 04 February 2025

I tried an LBT 140 PC and sized .357 and no leading.It shot pretty well in the P89 actually

I'm thinking the Lee with the shoulder before the RN may be shaving.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Standard Member

OU812 posted this 05 February 2025

Mike Venturino wrote article on how to shoot lead bullets in the automatic 9mm. He liked using thin Winchester brass and fat bullets. Bullet or round should barely chamber. The thinner brass allowed fatter bullet. The fatter the better. I can't remember what alloy he used.

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CBA Member

lotech posted this 05 February 2025

Yes, Winchester 9mm brass. Other brass may be fine, too, but WInchester has worked so well for me, I've never seen a need to change.

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linoww posted this 05 February 2025

Just got back with the P89 shooting 100 shots .Shooting was mostly for function ,but at 10 yards ten shots rested usually stayed about 2".

Load was 4.3 4756, RP 5-1/2 LBT 140 PC sized to .356(per Aaron's suggestion) .Cases were a "dog from every town"

The throat has a wash of gunk (not lead )that scrubbed out with a few pushes of a brass brush.

While not a magic load or target accuracy its where I wanted to be to ring steel at our range economically.

I wanted to hate PC bullets but they seem ok

Tonight I also shot 80 PC bullets out of my 25-2 45acp and the gun looked barely shot and my side of the range wasn't smokey. My buddy in the other lane shooting cast in his 38 was in a cloud. Not that bad but there was a difference.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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CBA Member

Aaron posted this 05 February 2025

Like Don Quixote, finding a CB load for a 9mm is a quest. I have stated before and will continue to state, the search for a good CB load in the 9mm will have grown men crying. Most give up. With sooooo many different throats, bore sizes, free-bore variation, bullet diameter variation, coatings or lubes, bullet SHAPES, and a host of other variables, it can be overwhelming for some.

To eliminate bullet seating issues across multiple firearms I settled on a "wax" lubed truncated cone bullet, the Lyman 356402 at 120gr, which will chamber in ANY 9mm chamber. Sizing to .356 allowed seating and crimping in ANY case and therefore, ease of chambering in any one of the various 9mm firearms. To prevent tumbling, which was a persistent problem for my 9mm loads, I switched to Accurate #7 propellant. Problem solved immediately with acceptable "combat" groupings. I have not, nor will I try coated bullets, due to the fact I have great success with the TC bullet and Whites 50/50 lube in all of my differing 9mm guns. The Lyman HP bullet shoots OK too due to its fast ogive shape. I do miss the whining of the tumbling bullets headed to the berm but better accuracy swayed me to eliminate the song of tumbling bullets.

It's great to see that you have worked out a solution through experimentation with your 9mm loads. I know how frustrating this caliber can be! That bore looks great now.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Aaron posted this 05 February 2025

BTW, the truncated cone bullet in Lyman #2 alloy, will dig deep. Really deep.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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linoww posted this 05 February 2025

The funny part is my first 9mm loading was for a Glock 17 back in 1986 and I was loading a SAECO #377 cast of linotype with 50/50 NRA lube and Bullseye.It shot decent with no leading issues. Must have been dumb luck. This recent experience must have been payback .

I'm going to repete the load but switch to Rooster Liquid Jacket and see what happens. I've had good luck with it in the past.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 06 February 2025

shot another 100 tonight between the HK USP 9mm Elite and my old Beretta 92.The 140 LBT load that functioned great it the Ruger P89 didn't have enough oomph to cycle the HK and Beretta reliable but shot "ok" with no leading.

I had some of the offending Lee 124g bullets so I sized them to .356 and used 5.5g of 4756 and both the Beretta and HK shot them very well with no leading.

So now I'm.more confused then ever? Was it bullet diameter or the Greendot load?

I'm not making excuses for these groups.But I was more interested in functioning and leadding then really clamping down the eyeballs but still i'm not unhappy.

i.shot most shots offhand and my groups were too embarrassing tonight to take pictures of!

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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pat i posted this 07 February 2025

I'm not making excuses for these groups.But I was more interested in functioning and leadding then really clamping down the eyeballs but still i'm not unhappy

I don't understand why you'd say you’re not making excuses. Those groups look pretty good to me, or at least a lot better than I'd be able to do.

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tomme boy posted this 07 February 2025

Stop sizing them. Load them as cast and coated to see if they chamber. That Lee bullet was the demise of thousands of casters that used it not powder coated. It works most of the time PC'ed but it still has problems. The main thing is no bearing surface for the rifling to grab.

The other thing you can do is throw them back into the oven and cook them for 30+ min at 400 or a little hotter then dump them in ICE water. Then let them sit at least two weeks before you do anything to them. Hardness still matters even with PC. The TL bullets are not meant to be sized.

Good luck Mr Pope in what you find

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linoww posted this 07 February 2025

I played with "resting bullets" for two weeks as well as quenching 30 years ago in a very accurate 30BR.The diffferce I saw in a .5 moa capable rifle was minimal to the point of insignificant.Sometimes I had best accuracy when the bullets were hours old un-quenched.i never found a clear anwser that it mattered. I monitored harness on an LBT tester at daily intervals as well.In service grade 9mm semi autos i doubt its worth the time. i just wanted no leading and ball ammo accuracy and im close enough. .The Ruger will take .358 bullets the HK chamber tighter and .356 needed to chamber reliable with my mixed headstamp brass.I never tried fatter bullets in the Beretta.The lee bullet seems to do ok actually. BTW I've sized Lee tumble lube bullets since their inception with no problems though I'd rather not size if the bullet fit.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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pat i posted this 07 February 2025

I don't know what you're doing George but obviously you're doing it right. I'd keep right on doing it.

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linoww posted this 08 February 2025

Yeah i'm fumbling through it but it looks like I got something to work . I don't need to add any more variables.

Maybe I need to weigh each bullet and trickle the charges so I can get my Ruger P89 that shoots 4 inch groups at twenty five yards down to 3.7825"

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Eutectic posted this 08 February 2025

Over a dozen 9mm pistols have passed through my hands. Some of them passed quickly. I still do not have all the answers but here are a few pointers.

If it won't shoot good quality jacketed bullets to the level of accuracy you need, it is a waste of time working with cast. If it is accurate with jacketed there is no guarantee.
Mixed cases are poison. Mixed with military cases are double poison.
115 grain cast bullets are too light, have a short body and require higher velocity to function.
125 grain can work but may need experimenting.
Heavier bullets are better, longer body and will function the pistol at lower velocity.
All cases will not accommodate the longer body bullets, type of case matters.
Maximum cast accuracy is usually under 1000 fps.

Powder?? Have a good selection try them all! Unlike the forgiving 38 Special or 45 ACP, powders can make a huge accuracy difference Why? have no idea.

Are coated bullets the answer to taming the 9mm? I hope you all are successful.

Steve

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linoww posted this 09 February 2025

HK USP 9mm Elite.

Lee 124 PC .356 with 5.5 4756.Mixed brass.

No leading.

two 5 shot groups rested 50'.

one 15 round magazine offhand 50' ( Don't laugh at the vertical.I was really struggling with trigger release after shooting off of bags)

I let my friend shoot some of the load out of his CZ 75 and they also shot fantastic.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 09 February 2025

That looks like success, George! Congrats. Now I need to figure out how to get my High Power to shoot lead.

Glenn

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linoww posted this 09 February 2025

It just has to be dumb luck Because I didn't go down this road very scientifically....

I did shoot the same load through the Beretta 92 and P89 with not nearly as good of accuracy but reliable and no leading.

This was 10 shots with the Beretta at 50 feet rested.I didn't take pictures of the P89 Ruger groups "accidentally on purpose" They were a bit bigger.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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pat i posted this 10 February 2025

George you have to have set a record for problem solving. In 2 weeks you went from massive leading and bullet tipping to your current results, I'm impressed.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 10 February 2025

geepers ... i didn't know a carry 9mm could shoot so good ...

it occurs to me that i have never shot a paper target with my Beretta 92S ...

whut next ? ... an informal groundhog shoot for 9mm iron sight carry pistols ?

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linoww posted this 10 February 2025

The HK 9mm Elite isn't a carry pistol, Its an expensive 6" "target pistol ". I say "target" loosely because it's not like a good bullseye pistol but set up quite a bit better than your average service pistol. The 92S is a surplus Italian police pistol with heel release magazine that Guido didn't take good care of. And remember these are only indoors at 50 feet,I haven't felt like getting out and freezing my butt off to shoot outdoors at 25 yards.

The HK trigger is pretty good for a "plastic fantastic" type of pistol.