45acp in a 1911

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  • Last Post 15 April 2013
rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

Guys, been shooting a lot of cast bullets out of a 1911 since the mid 70's (averaging 2-3000 rounds a month until the mid 80's). If you need any help, happy to lend a hand as I can.

Since a lot of shooters went through the “Which powder is best” routine in the early days of IPSC (which really was practical shooting in those days). Unique, Bullseye 231 and a lot of powders were tried. Of all of these, the single most popular for years was 231. Problem with using Bullseye in a 1911 is gunk. We did try a lot of tricks to get better ignition, didn't work. End of last year I did shoot some ammo loaded with bullseye out of a new Shooting star magazine and found it was jamming because there was so much gunk in the mag. That's Bullseye, which is fine for wheelguns (and Ed does that one a LOT!) ;)

With the H&G#68 I normally use and are readily available if you can't cast. Some quick notes:

5” Gov't 16 to 18 lb. recoil spring. H&G 68 200 grain SWC. Any brass (except I don't load small primer pockets) 231 powder Federal primers (best and most consistent ignition even with service pistol like the 1911/1911A1 or a tricked out gun. Option is to use WInchester Large pistol. These are also good primer and the pressures of these two are consistent and proper.

Mild practice load for older guys, kids and women that aren't used to shooting a 1911 is: 4.7 to 5.0 grains of 231.

The old Hardball equivalent is 5.8 grains of 231 using the above.

The second powder option if your press can handle fine grained powder is titegroup. Currently popular with the some of the competitive shooters including 38 super. I can post loads for that also.

Over all length max is 1.260, you'll find that some chambers and magazines like the Para-Ord (at least the early ones) want it 1.250. With a slight jump to bore, these might not be as accurate in a 1911 made for 1.260.. but they still work fine. I've seen bullets seated shorter and they still work. Just be careful not TOO short!

Let me know if I can help.

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mckg posted this 12 April 2013

That's interesting. I tried Titegroup with my standard alox lubed bullets in 45; it is very accurate until the gunk builds up on the barrel bed, rises it and causes said barrel to catch FN bullets noses. Older powders, like 700X, are much cleaner.

I also find it hard on the nerves; it meters very well in my Auto-Disks (new Hopper), but its high density and dark color make it very difficult to check loads visually on the Pro 1000.

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rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

mckg wrote: That's interesting. I tried Titegroup with my standard alox lubed bullets in 45; it is very accurate until the gunk builds up on the barrel bed, rises it and causes said barrel to catch FN bullets noses. Older powders, like 700X, are much cleaner.

I also find it hard on the nerves; it meters very well in my Auto-Disks (new Hopper), but its high density and dark color make it very difficult to check loads visually on the Pro 1000.

One of the reasons I'd still loading with 231. ;)

But I don't like bullets lubed with Alox, I just don't care for it in the 1911s because it does gunk up the pistol. Magna (I think it is) is what's typically used and cleaner. This might help. I can check on the lube if you like, the name just doesn't come to mind right now.I can also call to see if there's any input on this from the guys I know using Titegroup if it'll help. One of the guys I know using it is with his 38 super (race guns) and they're far more finickier.

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mckg posted this 12 April 2013

I'd like very much to find a substitute to the obnoxious Alox for tumble lubing, yes :)! There's always Veral Smith's frying pan lubing method...

For the Titegroup, it's on 9 luger duty, and still giving me headaches...:X

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rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

mckg wrote: I'd like very much to find a substitute to the obnoxious Alox for tumble lubing, yes :)! There's always Veral Smith's frying pan lubing method...

For the Titegroup, it's on 9 luger duty, and still giving me headaches...:X

OK, I'll check tomorrow (time to hit the sack). Sorry I don't do 9mm since 1980 and won't. Can't help there, but something like Ed, I've loved all kinds of rounds with 231 and others. Nope, don't do 44 mag (did do 44 spl), and anything smaller than 380 (for a friend's PPK).

Ed does use an interesting procedure (Ask ED Harris), but I wouldn't use it for the auto's. Tell him the pogo stick guy told you to ask! He stands up the bullets in a pan and melts something into them. But I don't care for that lube. Ed loads a lot of strange (to me) calibers).

Just bought a Star Lube sizer and got some lube with it called BAC lube (beeswax). Haven't tried it yet and I'll still look up the other source. Or kick me in the shorts if I forget.

OK the name is Magma engineering.

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99 Strajght posted this 12 April 2013

I have had very good luck with  the 45-45-10 lub. The gun doesn't gunk up and neither do the the dies. The lub is not hard to make and a little last a long time.

Glenn

What part of “Shall not be infringed” do you not understand.

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Ed Harris posted this 12 April 2013

rojkoh looks at my pan lubing or use of LLA as something like alchemy learned from a moldy fuzzy monster which came out of a limestone cave in West Virginia,

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww!

Brown goooooo! EEEECK! Keep away!

(Holding up crossed fingers like hex sign!)

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

Ed Harris wrote: rojkoh looks at my pan lubing or use of LLA as something like alchemy learned from a moldy fuzzy monster which came out of a limestone cave in West Virginia,

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww!

Brown goooooo! EEEECK! Keep away!

(Holding up crossed fingers like hex sign!)

Excuse me Mr. Harris, I save the sign of the cross for Bullseye!! RUNAWAY!!!!!!!!! :cusout:

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rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

99 Strajght wrote: I have had very good luck with  the 45-45-10 lub. The gun doesn't gunk up and neither do the the dies. The lub is not hard to make and a little last a long time.

Glenn

What part of “Shall not be infringed” do you not understand.

Howdy Glen, haven't tried it. But since i"m an old cuss, I'm kinda picky about certain things, the same way Ed Harris uses Bullseye (I think he brushes his teeth with it at night).

Might be worth a try, but I do kinda cranky when somethings going to soul .45s.

Magma is what a lot of the commercial casting people seem to be using (at least those with clean lube). I did try some bullets earlier this year, given the fact that the brass varies, and you typically get some shaving on the bullets form time to time, I hate gunky lube. Had to clean the progressive press to many times. I don't bell the cases excessively because it does over work the brass.

I have tried reaming the case mouth, but I just don't like it given the case walls on some brass. Sorry, I am rambling.

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rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

99 Strajght wrote: I have had very good luck with  the 45-45-10 lub. The gun doesn't gunk up and neither do the the dies. The lub is not hard to make and a little last a long time.

Glenn

What part of “Shall not be infringed” do you not understand.

Howdy Glen, haven't tried it. But since i"m an old cuss, I'm kinda picky about certain things, the same way Ed Harris uses Bullseye (I think he brushes his teeth with it at night).

Might be worth a try, but I do kinda cranky when somethings going to soul .45s.

Magma is what a lot of the commercial casting people seem to be using (at least those with clean lube). I did try some bullets earlier this year, given the fact that the brass varies, and you typically get some shaving on the bullets form time to time, I hate gunky lube. Had to clean the progressive press to many times. I don't bell the cases excessively because it does over work the brass.

I have tried reaming the case mouth, but I just don't like it given the case walls on some brass. Sorry, I am rambling.

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rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

99 Strajght wrote: I have had very good luck with  the 45-45-10 lub. The gun doesn't gunk up and neither do the the dies. The lub is not hard to make and a little last a long time.

Glenn

What part of “Shall not be infringed” do you not understand.

Howdy Glen, haven't tried it. But since i"m an old cuss, I'm kinda picky about certain things, the same way Ed Harris uses Bullseye (I think he brushes his teeth or gargles with it at night). ;)

Might be worth a try, but I do kinda cranky when somethings going to foul 1911s.

Magma is what a lot of the commercial casting people seem to be using (at least those with clean lube). I did try some bullets earlier this year, given the fact that the brass varies, and you typically can get some shaving on the bullets from time to time, I hate gunky lube. Had to clean the progressive press to many times. I don't bell the cases excessively because it does over work the brass.

I have tried reaming the case mouth, but I just don't like it given the case walls on some brass.

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99 Strajght posted this 12 April 2013

I have tried many lubs and ways to apply them, but found 45-45-10 to be the best. Last summer John Alexander wrote an article on the Cast Bullet forum about how to make and use 45-45-10. There is also a link to another web site on how to make and use 45-45-10. This is the best that I have tried and used the 45 and 30-06. Look up his article “Best way to use Lee Liquid Alox."

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rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

99 Strajght wrote: I have tried many lubs and ways to apply them, but found 45-45-10 to be the best. Last summer John Alexander wrote an article on the Cast Bullet forum about how to make and use 45-45-10. There is also a link to another web site on how to make and use 45-45-10. This is the best that I have tried and used the 45 and 30-06. Look up his article “Best way to use Lee Kiquid Alox."

Much appreciated, but I can simply ask Ed (Bullseye) Harris.

Oh Ed???? ;)

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99 Strajght posted this 12 April 2013

I am sorry. I gave credit to the wrong person. It was onondaga that gave the information to John Alexanders question. I have got to start looking this stuff up and not trying to remember. You know what they say. The mind is the second thing to go.

What part of “Shall not be infringed” do you not understand.

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Chargar posted this 12 April 2013

I have well over 1/4 million rounds of cast bullets through quite a few 1911 pistols over the past half century. Every one of them has been lubed with a mix of beeswax and Vaseline (about 70/30), and 99% have been fueled with Bullseye. They have all been sized .452.

I have never had problems with pistol stoppage due to powder or lube fouling. I do clean after every range session.

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rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

Chargar wrote: I have well over 1/4 million rounds of cast bullets through quite a few 1911 pistols over the past half century. Every one of them has been lubed with a mix of beeswax and Vaseline (about 70/30), and 99% have been fueled with Bullseye. They have all been sized .452.

I have never had problems with pistol stoppage due to powder or lube fouling. I do clean after every range session.

Nothing personal, but I've fired more than that through 1911s. Given the amount of shooters during the 70's and 80's shooting IPSC before it went the way of the race guns, We continually went through of “Which is the best powder” for years. Unique was dropped fairly quickly, Bullseye, faltered in the long run because of how filthy it is and the fact you have to work to get positive ignition every time. Even with the current Bullseye being different from what it once was, ask Ed Harris about this one.

Understand that in those days we shot 1911s that were “tight” for accuracy. Something I don't worry about much anymore. But you get something like a exceptionally nice Les Baer.... they have to be kept clean.

Shot my 1911A1 NM two or three times in the past couple of weeks, haven't had the time to clean it (buried in rifle work). Not worried that it'll jam.. But I don't like to tear down a good 1911 everytime I use it (I field clean) because it does add wear and tear to the weapon.

As an afterthought: I can tell you how many rounds it takes to wear out a good Colt 70 series. I can tell you how many rounds it takes to jam a 1911 using FFGf. Some of the things we've done over the years. One of my old friends owned the Bianci cup for years. Rob Latham and Brian Enos were “new kids” in our days. That steel plate I'm playing with in the picture was 101 yards away.

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mckg posted this 14 April 2013

rojkoh, question for you; but everybody can input...

I read some of your posts talking about the H&G 68 and the question is: with or without bevel base (other calibers are concerned too)?

Most of my molds are away, kinda, and I'm wondering if I should bother about that detail for the replacements.

Thanks

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rojkoh posted this 14 April 2013

mckg wrote: rojkoh, question for you; but everybody can input...

I read some of your posts talking about the H&G 68 and the question is: with or without bevel base (other calibers are concerned too)?

Most of my molds are away, kinda, and I'm wondering if I should bother about that detail for the replacements.

Thanks

No sweat, it's what some of us old farts are around for.

Bevel base for all of mine, ESPECIALLY the .45acp. Reasons:

1) easier and more efficient to load, especially with a progressive press and basically easier and fasterwith any press.

2) At the higher pressures/temps, a bevel base won't add the possibility of fouling the way level base bullets can

3) Flat base bullets can get damaged during loading if not properly aligned. Which leads to another problem, if the bullet isn't properly aligned and an edge catches the lip of the case, damaged case.

4) Bevel base are more forgiving even if you don't bell the case properly. You might get some lead shaving, but it'll seat.

Blah blah blah blah, I think that ought give you enough to justify a decision without putting you to sleep.

Serious suggestion: For a .45acp bullet (drum roll please)

H&G 68.

If you have a problem finding a mold, ask Ed Harris, he tends to find them and someone just mentioned that accurate molds might have a clone, this I can't tell you.

Because of health reasons, I shy away from actually molding anymore and I just found a good source in Tx. at decent prices. Let me know and when I get my first lot (waiting for a production run)... I'll pass it on. I just tried someone else, but wasn't happy with them, see below. On the left the “not so good one", on the right, the good kind. Magma lube, burns and shoots nicely. One of the left is 453, where it should be 452 and that damn lube got everywhere. Had to clean my seating die 3 times. Just plain nasty!

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mckg posted this 14 April 2013

Thanks; I had one made by LEE (452-200-SWC) indeed very easy to load (specially in the ROA :cool:) and as accurate as my other molds, if I remember correctly.

I have since done better with the RF, but cannot compare directly with the lost “68".

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rojkoh posted this 14 April 2013

mckg wrote: Thanks; I had one made by LEE (452-200-SWC) indeed very easy to load (specially in the ROA :cool:) and as accurate as my other molds, if I remember correctly.

I have since done better with the RF, but cannot compare directly with the lost “68".

No sweat, it's sometimes what us old farts are good for!

Let me know if you need anything else, I find this forum to be refreshing after all the “nonsense” (yes the PC term) on most other forums.

Let us know what you're shooting and what kind of load, we'll see if we can help.

back in the “day", used to burn a LOT of .45 and for the cowboy matches a lot of .38spl (mainly). I have shot a lot of other calibers and I know a lot of the guys are shooting .40 these days... I'm sticking with what I know works. ;)

PS one serious note, we used to shoot out to 200 yards with the .45... just because. The 68 does nicely once you find that accurate load (if you want to tune it)... I normally use 4.7 or 5.0 of 231 for practice.. serious loads are 5.8. Out of any 1911 I've tried from a Litchman Simerling, to OMs, to my LWC to 5” Govt to race guns, the H&G 68 type bullet typically works nicely. If there's a problem, you know where to send a nastygram! ;)

That 12” plate in the pic was 101 yards from where I was standing. Still use the weaver, Bob was a good guy and it got passed to a lot of spec ops and law enforcement people that came to SoCal when IPSC was young and Cooper was active in it. But only complaint: Never run the Cooper assault.. to damn many people got hurt on that one. I broke my knee in 78 on that one.

I've used a lot of molds and do have an H&G. My all time favorite was a Lyman mold for the 44. a .205 grain SWC bevel base. Great squirrel gun (44/40). It was an early Navy arms Yellowboy with octagonal barrel. loved it.

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mckg posted this 14 April 2013

rojkoh wrote: the H&G 68 type bullet typically works nicely. If there's a problem, you know where to send a nastygram! ;)

Yeah... Feeding :) Some of my buddies got almost resentful because my ammo didn't feed in their guns; like if I was tailoring my “match” ammo to work only for me lol.

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rojkoh posted this 14 April 2013

mckg wrote: rojkoh wrote: the H&G 68 type bullet typically works nicely. If there's a problem, you know where to send a nastygram! ;)

Yeah... Feeding :) Some of my buddies got almost resentful because my ammo didn't feed in their guns; like if I was tailoring my “match” ammo to work only for me lol.

Ok that's not unusual, but please be more specific. Are we talking 1911s? and if so, what kind, model and make? Did they have the ramped feed ramps? That helps for me to pin it down for you. also need to know if it's a “custom” barrel or just any non-standard barrel.

But “warning warning, Danger Will Robinson". Anymore chat has to wait, going to hit the sack shortly. I have loading and work to do tomorrow (today actually). Also what part of the country are you in?

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mckg posted this 14 April 2013

Canada, Pacific Time.

That mold is lost, LEE's new version has a wider nose; I loaded it with most of the front band out of the case, despite knowing that I had bullet setback problems. The 1911 with such a generous throating was sold years ago, and fed everything.

Nowadays, my Norc's 1911 and Blackhawk don't allow me any lead out of the case, unless it is the ogive. This would probably feed in my buddy's guns (The sloppy maracas that Colt made in the 70's and 80's).

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rojkoh posted this 14 April 2013

mckg wrote: Canada, Pacific Time.

That mold is lost, LEE's new version has a wider nose; I loaded it with most of the front band out of the case, despite knowing that I had bullet setback problems. The 1911 with such a generous throating was sold years ago, and fed everything.

Nowadays, my Norc's 1911 and Blackhawk don't allow me any lead out of the case, unless it is the ogive. This would probably feed in my buddy's guns (The sloppy maracas that Colt made in the 70's and 80's).

Ok Norinco's are one of the few 1911s I really don't know, but let's bring Ed Harris into this one, he's fiddling with a 45 convertible and he's tried a few tricks and making his .45acp cylinder more compatible. Do me a favor, take one of the rounds you KNOW feeds into the chamber of the Norico properly and take a pair of calipers and check the OAL for me. Could be 3 things: Shoulder on the SWC is wrong (it happens), lube (and lead shavings) on the shoulder which won't allow it to seat into the chamber properly (easy to fix, just take a tumbler with corn cob and pour a teaspoon or two of Paint thinner in it and let it tumble for at least an hour, it'll cut the lube and clean up the bullet, but make sure your tumbler can take additives... the Thumbler tumblers can't, at least the new ones) and one more: Ed's going to try a sizing die that makes it more compatible. Oh Ed!!!!:cusout:

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Ed Harris posted this 14 April 2013

Lapping the throat entrance with 600 grit on a piece of .30-'06 brass did the trick on the Blackhawk cylinder. No reason you couldn't try it on a .45 barrel.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Chargar posted this 14 April 2013

rojkoh wrote: Chargar wrote: I have well over 1/4 million rounds of cast bullets through quite a few 1911 pistols over the past half century. Every one of them has been lubed with a mix of beeswax and Vaseline (about 70/30), and 99% have been fueled with Bullseye. They have all been sized .452.

I have never had problems with pistol stoppage due to powder or lube fouling. I do clean after every range session.

Nothing personal, but I've fired more than that through 1911s. Given the amount of shooters during the 70's and 80's shooting IPSC before it went the way of the race guns, We continually went through of “Which is the best powder” for years. Unique was dropped fairly quickly, Bullseye, faltered in the long run because of how filthy it is and the fact you have to work to get positive ignition every time. Even with the current Bullseye being different from what it once was, ask Ed Harris about this one.

Understand that in those days we shot 1911s that were “tight” for accuracy. Something I don't worry about much anymore. But you get something like a exceptionally nice Les Baer.... they have to be kept clean.

Shot my 1911A1 NM two or three times in the past couple of weeks, haven't had the time to clean it (buried in rifle work). Not worried that it'll jam.. But I don't like to tear down a good 1911 everytime I use it (I field clean) because it does add wear and tear to the weapon.

As an afterthought: I can tell you how many rounds it takes to wear out a good Colt 70 series. I can tell you how many rounds it takes to jam a 1911 using FFGf. Some of the things we've done over the years. One of my old friends owned the Bianci cup for years. Rob Latham and Brian Enos were “new kids” in our days. That steel plate I'm playing with in the picture was 101 yards away.

I have long ago quit trying to convince anybody my understanding about anything is superior to their understanding on any subject under the sun. That just isn't productive.

I will just add context to my post in favor of Bullseye. Most of the rounds mentioned in my initial post were fired in Bullseye matches from the late 50s to the mid 60s, long before the steel shooting game came along. Having each bullet strike the X-ring at 25 or 50 yards was the order of business. All of our guns were very, very tight match pistols. Mine were put together by Clark and Chow. The slide and frames were mated by lapping, i.e. very tight.

Bullseye was the powder of choice and we didn't experience the issues you related. However, we did clean our guns after every practice session and match. It seems to be the fashion today to run the pistols until they choke or every 5K rounds which every comes first. We didn't do that. I still don't do that.

I don't shoot as much as I once did, but still put several thousand rounds through my 3 1911 pistols. I still use Bulleye and still clean them after every range session and I am still pleased with the loads.

In the end, I simply relate my experience, which extensive, with Bullseye powder in the 1911 pistol (45 ACP). Folks can input that or not, as they wish.

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Chargar posted this 14 April 2013

MCKG...I rather like the Norinco 1911A1 pistols having two of them and found them quite tolerate of feeding including my 452423 loads. Below is one of them with some of the ammo. Mostly I use H&G or Lyman 452460.

I had one Ruger BH 45 ACP that is a real bear on the issue you stated. The headspace shelf is quite broad with zero taper into the throat. The throats on the factory cylinders were quite tight. Opening them up to .453 helped, but did not resolve the issue. I should think lapping the throat entrance as per Ed Harris would be a good idea, but it so late for me as I have given the handgun to my son.

My second Ruger is one of the new Lipsey's 45 Flatop convertibles and doesn't seem to give me the fits the other one does.

With all the cast bullets I use (452423, H&G 68 and 452460) I just leave enough bullet body out of the case mouth to get a good taper crimp without rolling the case over the bullet lip.

There are other ways to do these things and perhaps some of them are better ways. This is just my experience and it works for me without any issues.

I don't hold myself out to be an expert on anything, particularly firearms and women. :-)

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rojkoh posted this 15 April 2013

I have long ago quit trying to convince anybody my understanding about anything is superior to their understanding on any subject under the sun. That just isn't productive.


Look, trying to communicate online is extremely difficult because it's all to easy to misunderstand/,misread someone when you can't hear the voice, or inflections or see the face. I know.. for 10 years before the Internet, I ran the only public FIREARMS discussion area. Ask Ed about that one. It's where we met. He loved it.

This is not really you trying to convince me, or me trying to convince you (and yes, sometimes I do come on like a ton of bricks because I'm trying to state my experience, but also jam all the data I want into a online discussion.

The point of actually having a point, counterpoint discussion is to let people that aren't sure, or don't know take in all the data they possibly can and then decide their own course of action.

It's also not a question of wasting time, because if someone that doesn't know, or isn't sure; they can reference an ongoing discussion. Or just ask one of us.

if by chance you think I'm going cominng like a ton of bricks (and I sometimes do without realizing it, I'm not perfect).. just remind me we're having a rational and reasonable conversation and you'd prefer to keep it that way.

Is there really a right and wrong? In some subjects, yes. In the case of which powder to use, that's up to the user. It's their weapon(s) and their reload, (which i do hope they'll do carefully).

I'm not trying to sway you anymore than you'll sway me. The reason I engaged is to allow others to learn.

As noted, we went through the “which powder” things damn near 40 years ago. Until IPSC went the silly race guns and self destructed, you'd be shocked at how many people used to come to our matches; including Seals, Spec ops guys, eventually the HRT guys, LE, etc etc etc etc. We had a ball.

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rojkoh posted this 15 April 2013

Chargar wrote: MCKG...I rather like the Norinco 1911A1 pistols having two of them and found them quite tolerate of feeding including my 452423 loads. Below is one of them with some of the ammo. Mostly I use H&G or Lyman 452460.

I had one Ruger BH 45 ACP that is a real bear on the issue you stated. The headspace shelf is quite broad with zero taper into the throat. The throats on the factory cylinders were quite tight. Opening them up to .453 helped, but did not resolve the issue. I should think lapping the throat entrance as per Ed Harris would be a good idea, but it so late for me as I have given the handgun to my son.

My second Ruger is one of the new Lipsey's 45 Flatop convertibles and doesn't seem to give me the fits the other one does.

With all the cast bullets I use (452423, H&G 68 and 452460) I just leave enough bullet body out of the case mouth to get a good taper crimp without rolling the case over the bullet lip.

There are other ways to do these things and perhaps some of them are better ways. This is just my experience and it works for me without any issues.

I don't hold myself out to be an expert on anything, particularly firearms and women. :-)

1) Reason you're having problems with your ammo in other pistols is easy. That bullet design.

There reason that the H&G 68 because so popular is because the SWC design matches the ogive of the Ball bullets, seated properly. The bullet in the picture will NOT.

I saw that bullet type years ago. Came and went quickly because modifying a 1911 (Colt spec, not to mentions ome of the ramped guns) won't work without modifying the feed ramp and that gets real dangerous if done wrong .

Sorry long day, kick me in the shorts tomorrow and we'll pick it up again please.

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rojkoh posted this 15 April 2013

Chargar wrote: MCKG...I rather like the Norinco 1911A1 pistols having two of them and found them quite tolerate of feeding including my 452423 loads. Below is one of them with some of the ammo. Mostly I use H&G or Lyman 452460.

I had one Ruger BH 45 ACP that is a real bear on the issue you stated. The headspace shelf is quite broad with zero taper into the throat. The throats on the factory cylinders were quite tight. Opening them up to .453 helped, but did not resolve the issue. I should think lapping the throat entrance as per Ed Harris would be a good idea, but it so late for me as I have given the handgun to my son.

My second Ruger is one of the new Lipsey's 45 Flatop convertibles and doesn't seem to give me the fits the other one does.

With all the cast bullets I use (452423, H&G 68 and 452460) I just leave enough bullet body out of the case mouth to get a good taper crimp without rolling the case over the bullet lip.

There are other ways to do these things and perhaps some of them are better ways. This is just my experience and it works for me without any issues.

I don't hold myself out to be an expert on anything, particularly firearms and women. :-)

1) Reason you're having problems with your ammo in other pistols is easy. That bullet design.

There reason that the H&G 68 because so popular is because the SWC design matches the ogive of the Ball bullets, seated properly. The bullet in the picture will NOT.

I saw that bullet type years ago. Came and went quickly because modifying a 1911 (Colt spec, not to mentions ome of the ramped guns) won't work without modifying the feed ramp and that gets real dangerous if done wrong .

Sorry long day, kick me in the shorts tomorrow and we'll pick it up again please.

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rojkoh posted this 15 April 2013

Mr. Harris!

A POX on you and your Ruger sir! Makes me miss my old 3 screw dammit!

Besides, if it shoots that well with that practice load.. I'm jealous.

Curse you!!!!!! ;)

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Chargar posted this 15 April 2013

ROJKOH

  1. I am not having problems with my ammo and I don't know where you get the idea I am.

  2. I do shoot H&G 68 and 452460 and have zero problems.

  3. I know the round in the photo is not No. 68. It is Lyman 452423, the old Keith design for the 45 Auto Rim. I posted the pic as an example of what will feed through a Norinco 1911A1. I have not found this pistol to be any more picky about loads than a Colt.

If this is a discussion I am not following your drift. One of us is on AM and the other FM. About the only constant is you think Bullseye sucks and I do not. I am OK with you thinking what you think and me thinking what I think.

I just felt that I should offer my experience in favor of Bullseye as a counter point to your anti-Bullseye point. I have shot lots of 231 and think it is an excellent powder. I just have not seen any advantages to make me switch from Bullseye. I tend to stick with what I know and what works for me.

Anyway, I don't see much point in this back and forth. I just wanted to reply as it would be bad manner just to ignore you. At least that is what I was taught as a kid.

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Chargar posted this 15 April 2013

Oops..hit the send key too many times. Anybody know how to delete a post on this site?

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mckg posted this 15 April 2013

Chargar wrote: Oops..hit the send key too many times. Anybody know how to delete a post on this site? Found this in FAQ's:

Jeff Bowles wrote: Sure we have a function like that.. PM The webmaster and he will delete it. I don't know who the Webmaster is yet...:)

BTW, Chargar, were you a member on JT's Campfire and JimT's Forum, eons ago?

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rojkoh posted this 15 April 2013

Chargar wrote: ROJKOH

  1. I am not having problems with my ammo and I don't know where you get the idea I am.

  2. I do shoot H&G 68 and 452460 and have zero problems.

Mea Culpa, was doing to many things at once and I crossed over threads/posters.

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rojkoh posted this 15 April 2013

Great I an turn this into something productive!

For any of you that know of them or have used them. I've run into a guy who's buying up old Stars and completely refurbishing them. So far have a Lube/sizer from him and it's very nicely done. Got a Star Universal on order in .45acp to replace mine. An old friend accidently took it with him when he moved out of state, he was good friend so we let it be.

Been looking to replace it since. So far this guy is good.

Guys name is Bruce Williams at: [email protected]

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Chargar posted this 15 April 2013

MC...

Yes, I was. My name in Charles Graff and I live in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.."On the border, by the sea"

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rojkoh posted this 15 April 2013

Chargar wrote: MC...

Yes, I was. My name in Charles Graff and I live in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.."On the border, by the sea"

LOLOL, that's what we called Southern California. ;)

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rojkoh posted this 15 April 2013

Chargar wrote: MCKG...I rather like the Norinco 1911A1 pistols having two of them and found them quite tolerate of feeding including my 452423 loads. Below is one of them with some of the ammo. Mostly I use H&G or Lyman 452460.

I had one Ruger BH 45 ACP that is a real bear on the issue you stated. The headspace shelf is quite broad with zero taper into the throat. The throats on the factory cylinders were quite tight. Opening them up to .453 helped, but did not resolve the issue. I should think lapping the throat entrance as per Ed Harris would be a good idea, but it so late for me as I have given the handgun to my son.

My second Ruger is one of the new Lipsey's 45 Flatop convertibles and doesn't seem to give me the fits the other one does.

With all the cast bullets I use (452423, H&G 68 and 452460) I just leave enough bullet body out of the case mouth to get a good taper crimp without rolling the case over the bullet lip.

There are other ways to do these things and perhaps some of them are better ways. This is just my experience and it works for me without any issues.

I don't hold myself out to be an expert on anything, particularly firearms and women. :-)

Looking at your picture again, reminded me of a load I did years ago. Hornady at the time was making an angled flat nosed bullet called the truncated flat nose” (230 grain jacketed bullet. Loaded it with 5.8 grains of 231 to make it hardball equivalent. Tested the heck out of it on a abandoned and stripped 71 Firebird I found up in the high desert after I notified LASD it was there (they knew what I was going to do).

Proved great against cars, it does punch the safety bar in the door at 15 yards. And when firing a deflection shot, instead of a ball bullet burrowing up the side of the metal, the flat nose turned in. This was proven by a friend of mine that was a motor officer who was having problems with a “perp” that loved to steel 450SLs in Beverly Hills. Couldn't stop them with hardball. One round of this worked fine.

Current equivalent (since Hornady no longer makes the bullet) is the Nosler angled flat nose (230 grains). But be careful, it's a handload and that has legal issues depending on where you live, if you happen to use it.

If you want a picture let me know, I am going to be testing the Nosler's in an SMG later in the year.

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