Lyman #2

12K Views
Last Post 12 February 2013

Standard Member

21gun posted this 10 February 2013

Has anyone made Lyman #2 alloy? I have about 700lbs of what I think is pure lead or pretty close. I shoot 38, 45 (acp and lc), 9mm 303 and 308. I see that Lyman #2 is 90% lead 5% tin and antimony, I'm assuming by weight. So can I just buy and melt in Tin and antimony? :coffee

Attached Files

18 Comments

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes

Standard Member

onondaga posted this 10 February 2013

Nope. The tin would go right in, but Antimony doesn't work like that. If you can get powdered antimony it is a little easier but the tin has to be in there first and the Antimony dissolves VERY slowly. Failure rate is high working with separate elemental metals and getting them to alloy unless you are a very experienced metallurgist

The easiest and most effective way is to get something like “Superhard” from RotoMetals , get some Tin also and follow their instructions to make a #2 clone alloy. other great possibilities depend on what you have and what you are willing to buy to ger your scrap up to BHN 15 ..Be aware that it is TIN that gives #2 alloy ductility and malleability that is the famous quality of Lyman #2. Just mostly bringing up Antimony to get BHN15 makes a brittle / non-malleable alloy that is poor for hunting as it will fragment on impact with game instead of the way #2 mushrooms.

RotoMetals Super Hard: http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/30_antimony_70_lead.htm>http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/30antimony70lead.htm

Here is some great recipes and info for working with Super Hard to make #2: http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm>http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm

I mix a #2 clone alloy with COWW:Linotype at 13:3 or Soft range scrap:Linotype at 8:2

Either of these mixes come out 14.5-15.5 BHN for me But I don't know the exact breakdown of elemental metal percentages actually present.

Gary

Attached Files

Standard Member

CB posted this 10 February 2013

Too much hassle. Try mixing your soft lead 50/50 with magnum lead shot, the smallest pellets you can find, also add about 2% tin to make it flow well into the mould. Make certain you have magnum shot, and not the chilled shot. Magnum shot has a pretty high antimony content, as well as arsenic (so smelt outdoors). My experience has been that 50/50 alloys end up a little softer than #2, but heat treat magnificently, and you can harden your bullets by simply dropping them into cold water directly from the mould if desired. A good local source for tin is 50/50 lead free solder, from the hardware store. Make certain the solder is 50% tin and 50% antimony, and can have trace amounts of other minerals. This will make a really clean (once you skim off the graphite from the shot), versatile alloy that you can use for practically anything, heat treated or not.

Attached Files

Standard Member

onondaga posted this 10 February 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7218>21gun:

Member http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2451>anachronism has a point that there are easier alloys to make bullet alloys. Consider what you actually want the alloy for. Paper punching with higher pressure loads in rifle or pistol, you can heat treat just about any bullets with some antimony in in them and they will get significantly harder.

Hunting game? hardened alloys that have depended on antimony and have little tin in them expand poorly if at all on game. The 5% tin and 5% antimony with 90% lead in Lyman #2 has been the most popular hunting alloy for cast bullet shooters for well over 100 years because it has a very optimized mix of hardness and ductility for bullets that only need 1,000 foot pounds impact on game animals for double caliber expansion and 100% weight retention of bullets as they pass through game animals. If that is important to you and your hunting, then make #2 alloy.

Scrap reclaimed magnum shot can be very inexpensive even from the supplier RotoMetals that I have linked. The shot can be used to make an excellent and very close approximation of #2 alloy. A little searching and you can find the formulas that do this. Reclaimed shot is also heavily graphite-ed and you will have to flux and clean the graphite out of the metal. That is not a big deal so don't let that stop you from trying the inexpensive reclaimed magnum shot.

There is numerous roads to getting the alloy you want. Keep in mind the order of melting alloys by melt temperature from highest melt to lowest melt temperature will have the least waste and cleanest results with ease of of the job.

Gary

Attached Files

CBA Member

delmarskid1 posted this 10 February 2013

I've used magnum shot as an adjuster and it made a nice alloy. I've gone the roto-metals route as well to make lino-type alloy and got good results as well. your 38's and 45's will shoot the soft stuff very well if you don't go for max loads. I got less leading in mine when I quit using the hard alloys. The soft bullets shorten up and I get less gas cutting. I save the hard stuff for the gas check rifle loads.

Attached Files

Standard Member

CB posted this 10 February 2013

Be cautious about reclaimed shot! There is no way I know of to determine if shot is magnum or chilled, based on appearance. Chilled shot is soft.

Attached Files

CBA Member

ubetcha posted this 10 February 2013

According to the Lyman cast bullet handbook 3rd edition page 57,you can make #2 two different ways.

4 pounds Linotype 1 pound 50/50 bar solder
5 pounds pure lead will make 10 pounds #2 alloy

9 pounds wheelweights 1 pound 50/50 bar solder will make 10 pounds #2 alloy

Attached Files

Standard Member

onondaga posted this 10 February 2013

RotoMetals Magnum Lead shot specifies 5% Antimony. Their reclaimed shot also claims that it averages about 5% antimony.

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/lead_shot_magnum_8_25.htm>http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/leadshotmagnum825.htm

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/lead%20shot%20reclaim%201%20bag.htm>http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/lead%20shot%20reclaim%201%20bag.htm

Either is certainly usable if you know what you are doing and the reclaimed is cheaper. Familiarize yourself with their “Green Truck Icon” that is specified for products that include FREE SHIPPING.

Wheel weight alloys either clip-on or stick-on type have no universally applied formulas and BHN will vary as well as elemental metal percentages. That, as usual , leaves bullet alloy makers guessing and experimenting.

Suggestion #1 is still get a Hardness Test Kit if you are going to stick with this hobby. they don't tell you elemental metal percentages but they offer good BHN testing. I test as cast bullets and then 10 days later. The 10 days later is very valid as any alloys with antimony in them will age harden in 10 days then stabilize. Ingots that were quick chilled or cold mold poured will get numbers all over the place. Lee Hardness Test Kit will work on bullets or ingots. But of course how the lead was cooled definitely effects hardness. Lee Kit:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/731364/lee-lead-hardness-testing-kit>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/731364/lee-lead-hardness-testing-kit

I use a personal 6X magnifier visor and my own caliper graduated by .001” with the kit. The little microscope with scale lens included with the kit works fine but the visor and caliper of my own is a little easier and faster for me. You have to measure the diameter of the dents the kit makes on your samples to .001” and the included chart tells BHN from your measurement. I occasionally do this service on 5 bullets free for members here. It is no work at all and kind of fun.

PM me if you want 5 bullets checked for BHN.

Gary

Attached Files

Liked by

Standard Member

21gun posted this 10 February 2013

Thank you, I appreciate all your help. I have got another question; does BNH cut down on leading of barrels or does going with a slower burning powder? I reload my FMJ with 700X, bullseye and power pistol, are these good for cast bullets? For my rifle I plan to crimp on gas checks and use H335.

Attached Files

Standard Member

21gun posted this 10 February 2013

Thank you, for your help. I just ordered the lee hardness tester from midway. I guess is my first step is to get the hardness of the 9ea 70lbs ingots I have and go from there. Oh! are the alloys by weight or by volume or something else? If you have any suggestions on alloys for steel shooting and paper punching, I'm all ears.

Thank you, Garry:fire

Attached Files

Standard Member

onondaga posted this 10 February 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7218>21gun:

Your powders are fine for cast bullets when you stay within load recommendations for them that are specifically for the recommended alloys and bullet type, and gas check if specified.

You are asking good questions to get started!

BHN is a dilemma for a lot of casters. My favorite reference that completely explains bullet hardness to load pressure level relationship is the Lee 2nd Edition Modern Reloading. Lee makes projections on alloy selection based on plain based cast bullets for both rifle and pistol. The addition of gas checks greatly extends Lee's projections but the exact factor remains unknown.

BHN itself has little effect at all on bullets that really fit well and seal off gasses very well. Leading is primarily a function of bullet fit.

Some shooters prefer fast powders for light loads. This route pounds the bullet hard with pressure and can even obturate an undersize bullet to fit in light loads with soft alloy.

Slower powders in rifles that give a good fitting gas checked bullet a gentile start nearly universally achieve the best accuracy almost up to start level loads for jacketed bullets.

The Lee book: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/639649/lee-modern-reloading-2nd-edition-revised-reloading-manual>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/639649/lee-modern-reloading-2nd-edition-revised-reloading-manual

Percentage of metals in an alloy formula are by weight.

I shoot metal silhouette in .223 Rem. with bullets cast from the Lyman 225646 mold in #2 alloy. Bullets are tumble lubed 45:45:10 Recluse once before check/size at .225” and twice after. Powder is either H4895 or AA2230 for 2200-2300 fps.

Gary

Attached Files

Standard Member

onondaga posted this 10 February 2013

My grandson shoots .308 Win bench and hunting with this load for his Savage 11/111 with a polished bore.

Lee .309-170-FNGC, mold honed to drop bullets .312" Cast #2 alloy checked/sized .3105” with custom honed bullet sizing die, bullets tumble lubed as above. Brass is Lee Collet Neck Sized, flared .005” for bullet seating then after seating bullets, case mouth is closed specifically to zero crimp with a Lee FCD

33.2 gr. AA2230 Velocity 2253 fps verified 1 MOA @ 100 yards consistently

My grandson is 16 and has been casting,loading and shooting with me 3 years.

Gary

Attached Files

Standard Member

CB posted this 11 February 2013

Gary, I can read , and I did read their site before posting. Locally, new Remington magnum lead shot runs $35.00 for a 25 lb bag. Contrast that with Rotometals $39.95 per bag and you'll see that the new shot is a little less expensive at least in my area. I was merely trying to help the OP realize there are different options.

The used shot does include inpurities, and doesn't qualify for free shipping until you buy a minimum of 50 lbs, and even then their total price is $10.00 more than if you were to buy two single bags. So the buyer paying at least part of the shipping.

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/leadshotreclaimclean.htm

vs.

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/lead%20shot%20reclaim%201%20bag.htm

Edited for dramatic effect.

Attached Files

Standard Member

onondaga posted this 11 February 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2451>anachronism:Aw gee thanks. You are very helpful but a pleasant attitude would be more useful.. The buyer has lots of options and discounts run higher with quantity. I rarely shoot less than 100 lbs of lead a year and 50 pounds + would be my choice. The OP should shop and I hope he does well. Check your PMs.

Gary

Attached Files

CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 11 February 2013

ubetcha 9 pounds wheelweights 1 pound 50/50 bar solder will make 10 pounds #2 alloy

Thats the one I've gone to whenever I wanted Lyman #2 !

And thats been rarely I might add .

Attached Files

Standard Member

Chargar posted this 11 February 2013

Yep, I have made lots of no.2. I follow Lyman's formula of 5 lbs Linotype , 4 lbs lead and 1 lb. of 50/50 solder.

Half and half pure lead and Linotype will produce an alloy very much like no.2 in hardness and application.

Attached Files

CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 12 February 2013

What I have been doing for revolver bullet alloy after running out finally of “FBI backstop lead,” is simply to mix Roto Metals 92-6-2 pb-sb-sn “hardball alloy” 50-50 with his 1:40 tin/lead.

This combination is about 10-11 BHN, casts VERY well, is consistently reproduced and works well for plainbased bullets for smokeless loads in blackpowder calibers and GC rifle bullets, properly fit and lubricated at moderate velocities up to 1800 fps.

If you want a harder alloy the straight hardball alloy is hard to beat.

I use his 1:40 tin-lead in the cap & ball revolvers and muzzleloading rifles.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Standard Member

Bisley posted this 12 February 2013

Onondaga,

I agree that pure antimony is a little tedious to work with, but it can be done. Twenty-odd years ago I bought a 55-lb ingot of pure antimony because I wanted to experiment with it (teenager, first job, $$ burning holes in my pockets, wanted to play with the plumber's furnace, etc...). You need a full tank to get it hot enough to melt, it emits a toxic gas as it oxidizes, but it cast into SAECO 1-lb ingots weighing about 1/2-lb each. Recently, I took the last of these ingots, put it on top of the melt in my Lee 20-lb pot, and simply poured the alloy over it until it dissolved. I don't know if I'd buy the powder antimony to do that, and rotometals has it for $14.00 a pound. However, I would not go off to buy antimony because there are so many other antimony-bearing alloys out there.

If anybody's interested, I still have a solid block iof roughly half it the antimony purchase left. Contact me if you're interested.

Bisley