Same powder lot #, important or not?

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  • Last Post 29 January 2013
R Dupraz posted this 28 January 2013

How important is using the same powder lot # in developing a load and shooting it for target accuracy? Should this variable be included in the long list of the others that we address with a rifle and the loads when trying to get those bug hole groups. Is there anyone who has spent time looking at this detail and has some deffinate results? Is it worth the time or not?

Over the years, I have read that one should go through the load development thing each time one gets more of the same powder. Some times I have and some times I haven't. I think I have noticed some variation in group size overtime but never have taken this serously. I know that the Army does. As I recall that variable was included in the 155mm fireing data.

What prompted this question was that my supply of IMR 4227 was getting dangerously low, as it usually does about this time. And I allways wait to buy more from a guy that comes to most of the guns shows around these parts. Talk about a land office business! All I ended up with was three one pound cans of widely different lots.

After doing everything else with rifle tuning,casting,sizing, and load developement etc.and nowhere else to go,I might take a good look at this just for the fun of it.

Wonder if I mixed those three cans of powder together.....? Wonder if it would make a difference...? Is this as good as the rifle/load will shoot.....? Or am I still missing something?

RD

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Wayne S posted this 28 January 2013

After doing everything else with rifle tuning,casting,sizing, and load developement etc.and nowhere else to go,I might take a good look at this just for the fun of it. Since you didn't list your location, is weather an effect on  a “just for the fun of it project” ? If NOT, load 10 rounds from each can of powder, go shoot and see if there is any difference .  AND from this point on, get an “piggy bank” something you can't “rob” and start putting loose change and a $ 1.00 bill in every so often and this time next year get with a few friends to split the HAS MAT & shipping and order your powder in 8 # kegs. Just my $.02  

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gonzbob posted this 28 January 2013

I have a similar problem.  I am down to the bottom off my W231 can.  I have an unopened can of W231 that I purchased from a different store.  Can I pour the last few table spoons of the old can into the powder dispenser followed by the newly open can without any worries?

Bob

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R Dupraz posted this 28 January 2013

Wayne S.

"Pennies for powder” and the “cookie jar” are not the problems! The current “gun hysteria” plus the normal reduction in inventory this time of year are as far as availability is concerned.

I usually restock about this time for the next and have been able to get powder from two or three area retailers as cheap as getting together with whomever, ordering and paying the upfront haz-mat fee. Even thought the customer ultamately pays the fee in either case. It wasn't that hard to end up with same lot.

The primary question was not saving for the cost but was and is, asking if anyone had really spent time looking into the effect, if any, of different lot #,s of the same powder on group size with regard to target accuracy. And, what the results were.

Oh, and all my piggy banks have long since dissappeared. I'll try to be a little more clear next time.

RD:D

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RicinYakima posted this 28 January 2013

My thoughts and practices:

If possible, I buy powder in the 4 pound lots because that will let me shoot for a couple of years. For the last 10 years I have mostly used my chronograph for shooting new lots of A2400 powder, what I use for matches. Comparing all Alliant labeled lots, they all fall into the same range of speeds per weight. It is very consistant.

About six years ago I got a large steel can of SR7625 and three one pound cans. I just mixed it all togather and developed my loads from there. I know I will have to redo my loads when I run out, but that will be another five or six years. Or I will use the 3 1/2 pounds of WW231 in storage.

Now I know it is not safe to mix or blend powder; yes there can be density and settling issues. So I don't recommend any of this, but it is what I do.

FWIW, Ric

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CB posted this 28 January 2013

RD

Once I get down to a winning load at 100yds, one-hole groups .3” to .7” five shot groups, no flyers, I can tell the difference between powder lots. An accurate load of .7” to 1.5” is harder to document the difference. Sometimes a varied load weight up or down .2 grain will bring accuracy back, but most times one lot of powder will just be more accurate over another lot of the same powder.

Mixing powder lots; I would mix new powder lots with no concern, I do that often. 'Old' powder with new powder, I do not. Old powder will deteriorate, so I do not want old powder in my new 8lb kag or it could ruin the whole container. I will mix old powder with new powder in the canister on my powder measurer and use it up so it does not go back into my keg........Dan

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R Dupraz posted this 28 January 2013

Thanks Dan & Ric:

Exactly what I was after. Some valid info. Maybe not a real big deal for this pilgrim but as I wrote at the outset, I have wondered about this question in the past some but that was about it. Never really paid much attention to the idea. Just dumped a new can of powder on top of what was left of the old one in the measure.

As long as the process is in attempting to get the most out of a rifle/load combination to make it more competitive, one step at a time, am always wondering if there is something else that would make a difference. I just might mix the powder in these three cans. Haven't decided yet.

So, I think I'll add this next to the last on the list, which will always have a permanent spot in last place. And that is “Messing With My Competitors Minds".

Anyone else feel free to chime in with any your results.

RD

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RicinYakima posted this 28 January 2013

Luckily, I have not had the problem of powder deteriation that Dan had had. I live in a desert, low humidity, powder stored in a real magazine, lead lined wood, sitting on a concrete slab in a protected area of my shop. Temperature slowly changes from 100+ in summer to -10 in the winter. I have had on two problems; one can of HiVel #2, made in 1930's, go from good to red dust and ate the paper can package up in less than a year about 6 years ago, and one glass jar of surplus 4895 about 20 years ago. FWIW, Ric

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gonzbob posted this 28 January 2013

Thanks Dan,

This answers my question on mixing lots of W231 that are less than a year old.

Bob

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 29 January 2013

I've had a number of conversations with engineers that worked at the Radford Army Ammunition Plant, run then by Hercules and then ATK. Commerical canister grade powders are blended and blended and blended to ensure that over the years the product is the same. Over a number of years there may be some slight deterioration (noted diverences between years-old and new). Military powders obviously are different.

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R Dupraz posted this 29 January 2013

Usefull information, Thanks

RD

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RicinYakima posted this 29 January 2013

TRK,

And they mean really blended, not just put into a can a shaken a couple of times. I have read Hodgden's problems with rail car loads of different 4895 in the 1950's. It is not as easy as it would seem.

Ric

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