Temperature probe depth and location

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  • Last Post 02 December 2012
Savage99 posted this 01 August 2012

I have various types of temp probes, with appropriate couplers, that hookup to a digital meter (Fluke). I need to know the recommended location/depth I should put these. The furnaces are Lyman Mag 20 and a Saeco. I have learned that I need to keep a closer eye on the alloy temp.

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Pigslayer posted this 02 December 2012

Uncle Russ wrote: Mr. Pigslayer;

Was not aware pigs had residence in Maryland. Thought they were all pretty much clustered up around D.C.. Where ever you go to slay them, right on!

Closing note, nice picture. Lee Marvin is my hero too!!! :thumbsup:

Uncle Russ.

      I work in D.C. everyday. LOL But, there are some very large preserves around the area. There is one down In Tenn. that is 3000 acres & lots of pigs. Would like to go to Texas to hunt. Yes, there are a lot of pigs in D.C. but they are always out of season. Heh-heh.      The pig shown was 400 + lbs.. Big boy.

Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Reg posted this 02 December 2012

Uncle Russ wrote: Just a thought for the open pot guys. Put probe in pot, set pot on single burner hot plate, let controller control hot plate. What is the difference between that element and the element in the electric pot? Trust me, the probe is real dumb, it only knows the temperature not the source of the heat. Got a 240v hot plate? No problem. Just interupt one leg. Your stove in the kitchen has worked that way since forever. Or buy two SSRs and wire the control side in parallel.

And when you buy your SSR make sure it is rated properly. The above diagram ASSUMES you have a line voltage primary on the SSR. Just so you don't let the magic smoke out when using the above scheme: SSR primary voltage 240 volt AC or higher, control voltage 3-32 volt DC and SSR rating of 25 amps or greater. Now I am ASSUMING the control voltage because I can not read the output on the controller. This control scheme is one of many that will work.

There must be a thousand answers to the same question. As I used to tell my apprentices, this is how I would do it. Now go figure it out for yourself so you learn something.

I should have had my brain fully engaged before I started typing but yes, using a electric hot plate was what I was thinking about.
Another thought. I use the Lyman pot (s) and because of the shape of the sides of the pot and it shallow depth, a normal thermometer doesn't want to stay upright and it rubs the pot walls and to read it you have to almost get over the top of the pot. Could not one come up with a short temp probe that would not touch the pot walls and just wire it directly to the LED readout ? Even a gas burner could be used but you would have to adjust it manually but it would just be a far easier to read way of doing things. Quicker to see too , I would think.

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Uncle Russ posted this 02 December 2012

Mr. Pigslayer;

Was not aware pigs had residence in Maryland. Thought they were all pretty much clustered up around D.C.. Where ever you go to slay them, right on!

Closing note, nice picture. Lee Marvin is my hero too!!! :thumbsup:

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RicinYakima posted this 02 December 2012

George,

I bought Uncle Russ's original controler. What it is really good for is working with scrap metal, ones with lots of unknowns. The big thing is that just 5 degrees on some of these makes a big difference in the casting. From 50% culls from none fill out, to maybe 5% culls, but any hotter and you get shrunken sides.

Some moulds are hard to get the bullet to release at certain temperatures, but this allows you to keep the temperature constant in the mould with a steady pace.

I cast match bullets from linotype. This allows me to cast 98% keepers thru the weight sorting process with good lino alloy. It is a time saver for me.

Ric

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John Alexander posted this 02 December 2012

Pat,

Thanks for the diagram and pictures. Very nifty looking.

John

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John Alexander posted this 02 December 2012

George wrote: "Not to be a contrary but theory aside has a test been done to see if a perfectly temp controlled pot gives better bullets and smaller groups? It would be an interesting test."

George, Don't give contrary a bad name. Excellent question. If I were betting I would bet that it doesn't. I would like to have closer control anyway. Like weighing bullets the main purpose may be just to raise confidence. It also looks impressive on Pat's bench.

John

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Pigslayer posted this 02 December 2012

Uncle Russ wrote: Just a thought for the open pot guys. Put probe in pot, set pot on single burner hot plate, let controller control hot plate. What is the difference between that element and the element in the electric pot? Trust me, the probe is real dumb, it only knows the temperature not the source of the heat. Got a 240v hot plate? No problem. Just interupt one leg. Your stove in the kitchen has worked that way since forever. Or buy two SSRs and wire the control side in parallel.

And when you buy your SSR make sure it is rated properly. The above diagram ASSUMES you have a line voltage primary on the SSR. Just so you don't let the magic smoke out when using the above scheme: SSR primary voltage 240 volt AC or higher, control voltage 3-32 volt DC and SSR rating of 25 amps or greater. Now I am ASSUMING the control voltage because I can not read the output on the controller. This control scheme is one of many that will work.

There must be a thousand answers to the same question. As I used to tell my apprentices, this is how I would do it. Now go figure it out for yourself so you learn something. Thanks for your post. Yes, there are a number of control schemes and as I said, the above one is Generic if you will. It will be up to the builder to have some electrical knowledge. What is simple to guys like you & I can be a major challenge to others. A word of caution to those who may be electrically challenged. You may be wise to have someone build one for you. It'll be worth the money.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Uncle Russ posted this 02 December 2012

Just a thought for the open pot guys. Put probe in pot, set pot on single burner hot plate, let controller control hot plate. What is the difference between that element and the element in the electric pot? Trust me, the probe is real dumb, it only knows the temperature not the source of the heat. Got a 240v hot plate? No problem. Just interupt one leg. Your stove in the kitchen has worked that way since forever. Or buy two SSRs and wire the control side in parallel.

And when you buy your SSR make sure it is rated properly. The above diagram ASSUMES you have a line voltage primary on the SSR. Just so you don't let the magic smoke out when using the above scheme: SSR primary voltage 240 volt AC or higher, control voltage 3-32 volt DC and SSR rating of 25 amps or greater. Now I am ASSUMING the control voltage because I can not read the output on the controller. This control scheme is one of many that will work.

There must be a thousand answers to the same question. As I used to tell my apprentices, this is how I would do it. Now go figure it out for yourself so you learn something.

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Pigslayer posted this 01 December 2012

This is a basic/generic diagram. The pinouts for your thermocouple may vary with your PID. Also please note that a “High Temp. Probe only has two wires. No, you don't need an alarm as it would probably drive you nuts until you got up to temp.! On mine a put a bypass so I could switch from PID control to pot control. All the parts came from ebay for under $50.00. The box I made from some galvanized sheet metal that I had left over from installing my furnace.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Pigslayer posted this 01 December 2012

Reg wrote: The controller setup is shown is in an electric pot but could you also use it in a open pot and ladle setup ? You mean like over a open flame burner? In that case it wouldn't do much good.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Reg posted this 01 December 2012

The controller setup is shown is in an electric pot but could you also use it in a open pot and ladle setup ?

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Pigslayer posted this 01 December 2012

linoww wrote: Not to be a contrary but theory aside has a test been done to see if a perfectly temp controlled pot gives better bullets and smaller groups? It would be an interesting test.

I've shot frosted bullets and shiney crisp, sharp edged bullets & though I'm not a cast bullet match shooter, I've never really noticed any difference as far as accuracy as long as the bullet has good fillout. But it does seemed to me that the nice shiney, well formed bullets would have better expansion on game than a frosted seemingly crystalized alloy. When I first read about a PID cotroller several years ago I was skeptical as to the need of one and scoffed at those who used one. (The Old Dog & New Tricks syndrome. LOL) But then I got curious & built one . . . never looked back, I love it!

Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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linoww posted this 01 December 2012

Not to be a contrary but theory aside has a test been done to see if a perfectly temp controlled pot gives better bullets and smaller groups? It would be an interesting test.

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Pigslayer posted this 01 December 2012

O.K. Give me a little time fellas & I'll draw up a diagram & post it along with a bill of materials. I'm “on call” this week so won't have much time for a few days. Be patient. Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Reg posted this 30 November 2012

John Alexander wrote: Pat,

A write up of your design for a PID controller and high temperature probe would make a great Fouling Shot article. I'm sure there would be interest by members. Your posts and pictures you have prepared for the forum would be a good start. The goal might be to give readers enough information to build one themselves.

Think about it.

John

John, Push this one if you could. Would make a great article. :fire

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Uncle Russ posted this 30 November 2012

I sent all the information you guys are talking about to the Fouling Shot about 3 or 4 years ago and that is where it died. I figured that since I build and sell these units that they did not want to give me free advertising. I am cheap when I buy parts and if you can find everything for $50 to build one we would all like to know that secret. Please pass it on.

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RicinYakima posted this 30 November 2012

"The Fouling Shot” is the members magazine of the Cast Bullet Association. Join, and you receive 6 issue per year.

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Savage99 posted this 30 November 2012

I am new to this. What/where is “Fouling Shot"?

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Savage99 posted this 30 November 2012

Do you have a schematic/parts list for your PID? Please send it to me. Thanks Ron

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mrbill2 posted this 30 November 2012

I second that suggestion !!

John Alexander wrote: Pat,

A write up of your design for a PID controller and high temperature probe would make a great Fouling Shot article. I'm sure there would be interest by members. Your posts and pictures you have prepared for the forum would be a good start. The goal might be to give readers enough information to build one themselves.

Think about it.

John

mrbill2

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