Need Unique advice for 45 ACP 200 grain cast

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  • Last Post 22 June 2013
jh45gun posted this 30 July 2012

Gun is a 1911 RIA Tactical 5 inch barrel. Bullet is the Lee 452- 200 grain RF nose Mold # 90234. OK any one use it here? Is the second groove a crimp groove or lube groove? Of course you would not use a crimp groove on the 45 ACP so what do you guys use for an over all length with this bullet. Of course the manuals show other bullets that are 200 grain and not this one.For the Unique numbers are all over with my manuals Lee says 5.1 grains of unique which is the only loading they suggest is 810 fps. Alliant website says 5.4 grains for 790. The Hornady book list a 200 grain SWC with 5.6 grains at 800 fps and 5.9 at 850 and a max 0f 6.2 at 900. The lyman goes from 5 grains at at 670 fps???????? to 7.5 for 980 fps. So what do you guys use for a 800 fps load using Unique?  I do have some red dot I could use also. I loaded some up before and I do not remember the load but I was trying for 800 fps with my lyman info usin Unique. Recoil was not bad but the load would chamber in the High Point I had it will not chamber in my 45 1911 so I did some thing wrong with either seating the bullet wrong or crimping with the taper crimp it seems like the bullets were too fat for the 1911 maybe I put too much pressure on the crimp as these worked in the High Point but maybe that had a looser chamber. I gave those bullets to the friend I sold the High Point to so he can shoot them up instead of me pulling them. I am sizing the bullets with a Lyman lubrisizer and a a 452 sizer. Checked with my Caliper it is measuring .452 sized and the length of the bullet is .527 Any advice would be appreciated I cannot figure out what I did wrong with this bullet. I seated it right past the second lube groove before if it is a lube groove or it a crimp groove? Both are getting lube. I tried to post just a picture of the bullet but Lee must have it protected as read only. I could copy the whole picture but not just the single bullet.

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jh45gun posted this 30 July 2012

I gave one of the loaded shells to a friend and he said it seemed too fat to chamber so I am thinking I might have put too much pressure on the crimp and swelled the bullet ahead of the case is this possible?

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r1kk1 posted this 30 July 2012

What is your crimp measurement?

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delmarskid1 posted this 30 July 2012

When I was getting started with the .45 an older and wiser gent told me to disassemble my 1911 and use the barrel for a chamber gauge. The loaded cartridge should drop in and be flush with the barrel hood. It should also fall out when the barrel is up ended.  I only crimp enough to take out the flare or bell of the case mouth. I have had no problems with bullets deep seating as long as the bullets made it up the feed ramp okay. It works for me and it worked for Bob too!  Maybe we'll meet up hunting some time. We poke around on the paper mill land.

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Sonny Edmonds posted this 31 July 2012

I'm old school (now that I'm getting Senior Discounts :shock:). First, to clarify, I use two Lee designs I cast. One is designated as 230g (90346) and the other at 228g (90352). I've always felt that for an Auto, holding close to the original ammo perimeters gave me less heartaches. It's an opinion that has worked for me over decades and decades. But I've always used a factory round to get my starting settings for my reloading. (1930's, Federal Arsenal, factory rounds for my 45 and 30-06.) I gently raise a factory round, and lower the die body in the press and kiss the round at the taper and lock it, then lower the bullet seating ram to kiss the factory seating and lock that. Then crunch a round and compare. With a tiny amount of fine tuning from that point, the rounds will cycle well to comparative factory rounds. Once your die settings are set, if you have to remove them it's easy to return them to their working setting. (I have a press dedicated to my 45ACP reloading now) No matter what the cartridge is I'm reloading, I use this same method to get my initial settings for my dies. And right, the 45ACP uses a taper crimp. When I have had rounds that did not want to chamber correctly, usually I needed to add just a smidgen more squeeze by carefully adjusting the die down. You can also make sure your case length is correct, and the finished OAL is proper. The grooves in your bullets are for your lube. But that's a whole new subject.... ;)

OH, and yeah, Unique... I made my decision last winter to buy a 8# jug of it for both my 45 and 30-06 cast bullet reloading. I use 5.5g to push either of my two bullets I like to use. Seems to me to be a nice, crisp, and accurate load in my 1929 45ACP. If you don't have a chronograph yet, you might want to think about adding one to your “wish list".

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jh45gun posted this 04 August 2012

Good info guys thanks. R1kk1 I did not measure it but I will when I find an other bullet in the 230 grain range and start up again. This is the first round that ever gave me issues reloading. I load and cast for several rifle calibers and also cast for 45 Colt. I gave the shorter 200 grain bullets to a friend along with the mold to use in his revolver. I have a Uberti 1973 Clone in 45 colt I could shoot it in but that gun I have to get regulated it is shooting low with 252 grain SWC bullets so I sure do not want to with lighter ones in that gun. I have to either go with a heavier bullet or slow the ones down I now use in that gun to get it to hit POI. So back to the 1911 I figure I will try a new bullet and seat the bullet first then crimp instead of trying it in one step as I think I had the die set off so it was crimping before the bullet got entirely seated which bumped up the bullet diameter and was causing the problems.

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jh45gun posted this 04 August 2012

delmarskid1 wrote: When I was getting started with the .45 an older and wiser gent told me to disassemble my 1911 and use the barrel for a chamber gauge. The loaded cartridge should drop in and be flush with the barrel hood. It should also fall out when the barrel is up ended.  I only crimp enough to take out the flare or bell of the case mouth. I have had no problems with bullets deep seating as long as the bullets made it up the feed ramp okay. It works for me and it worked for Bob too!  Maybe we'll meet up hunting some time. We poke around on the paper mill land.

Lots of paper mill land around up here where about's do you hunt?

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delmarskid1 posted this 07 August 2012

Barnes, near 27 and the Douglas/Bayfield county line. More wolves than deer lately.

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jh45gun posted this 07 August 2012

delmarskid1 wrote: Barnes, near 27 and the Douglas/Bayfield county line. More wolves than deer lately.

Yea I hear ya plus so much logging out in that area in some areas hardly a tree left standing. At least that is what I have seen east of Solon Springs to that area. Gordon is my home town I grew up there and I still hunt in that area though I hunt more west of Gordon and Wascott than I do east though I some times venture out that way. Wolves are an issue but the DNR has pushed the concept of the herd control with their unlimited anterless tags and cheap at two dollars a tag has cheapened the deer hunt. Used to be if folks shot a doe they shot a big one because they only had one doe tag and did not want to waste it. In the well past a decade of multiple doe tags per license both bow and rifle and allowing multiple tags bought at two dollars a tag unlimited the DNR had decimated the deer herd in our area. Folks started shooting smaller deer figuring heck that is worth two dollars and I can get an other tag. Think of the nubbin bucks shot by folks thinking they were small does.  If some one told me ten years ago it would come to a time on a opening deer season (Last year rifle season) I would not see a deer I would have laughed now it is a reality that stinks. Last deer I killed with a bow is 4 years ago. Last one with a rifle was a October hunt and that will be three years ago this fall. Since then I have seen less and less deer and I am not alone by any means. SO the DNR says they will listen yea right they do not have the two dollar tags this year up north here or unlimited tags, but they have more then enough 12 dollar tags to go around. Too many.

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rjmeyer314 posted this 19 August 2012

I don't know about the 800fps, but Ken Waters in his Pet Loads book lists a 200gr Hornady (probably swaged) SWC with 6.0 grains of Unique as his most accurate load. I've been using it for years and my old 1918-manufactured Colt 1911 likes it. I use a taper crimp die and that seems to insure good functioning.

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shastaboat posted this 19 August 2012

OAL for a 45acp depends on what will fit in the mag and what will feed reliably. LEE 90234 definately has a crimp groove but I fill it with lube and taper crimp covering this groove as well. I load 5-6 gr of Unique depending on the recoil spring installed. 6 grains with a standard spring works well in most 45acp's.

Because I said so!

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Dale53 posted this 19 August 2012

I remove my 1911 barrel and use it for a gauge (barrels DO vary in chamber size and length):

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rojkoh posted this 11 April 2013

jh45gun wrote: I gave one of the loaded shells to a friend and he said it seemed too fat to chamber so I am thinking I might have put too much pressure on the crimp and swelled the bullet ahead of the case is this possible?

SInce you're using this in a 1911, several suggestions since I've been shooting Cast out of 1911s since the mid 70's (IPSC and IDPA).

1) H&G 68 molds. these bullet work in the 1911 and have since day one. 2) move to 231 or titegroup. We went through the “Which powder is best” routine in the 70's. Unique performed the worst, Bullseye is just nasty and 231 holds up well. IF you can load with a fine grain, titegroup. This was passed to me by Mickey Fowler.

With a 1911 and depending on your recoil spring (I use 18 lbs), I load 5.0 of 231 for practice, match ammo is loaded at 5.8 grains of 231 for hardball equivalent with the H&G #68 200 grain SWC. It's the only bullet I normally use for shooting.

Also understand that “back in the day", we shot out to 200 yards with the 1911s, 5.8 of 231 and the H&G 68 bullets.

Finding this mold is NOT easy these days. but they are readily available. I just found another good source in Tx since I can't cast anymore. PS, that 12” plate I'm shooting at is at 101 yards.

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rojkoh posted this 11 April 2013

Dale53 wrote: I remove my 1911 barrel and use it for a gauge (barrels DO vary in chamber size and length):

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billglaze posted this 11 April 2013

I may be over simplifying this, but l use 6 gr. of Unique in all of my .45 model 1911's and that's with 185, 200 and 230 gr. Bullets. Function is perfect, accuracy good, velocity satisfactory. Been using it for years. Cartridge O.A.L. is set so rounds load and function thru the magazine.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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rojkoh posted this 11 April 2013

billglaze wrote: I may be over simplifying this, but l use 6 gr. of Unique in all of my .45 model 1911's and that's with 185, 200 and 230 gr. Bullets. Function is perfect, accuracy good, velocity satisfactory. Been using it for years. Cartridge O.A.L. is set so rounds load and function thru the magazine.

Nicely said, but most of “us” went away from Unique in the 70's. I do use 230 grain jacketed bullets for a reason, but mainly the H&Gs 68s.

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Tom Acheson posted this 11 April 2013

Accurate Moulds has a nice copy of a duplicate of the H&G #68 in their catalog.

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rojkoh posted this 14 April 2013

Tom Acheson wrote: Accurate Moulds has a nice copy of a duplicate of the H&G #68 in their catalog.

Thanks, already have one.. but for health reasons, I try to avoid actually casting these days. But for the 1911s, can't beat the bullet type, we've been using them since the start of IPSC.

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sbhg posted this 22 June 2013

200 gr. RNFP,  Win. case,  CCI primer,  Lee .7cc powder scooper = 6.4 gr.,  seated to the bottom of the crimp groove,  .470” dia. crimp,                      My notes also state, 2"+/- groups@25 yds. Also noted I couldn't get groups as well as using W-231 (1"-1.5” ). All groups were w/ 7 shots, keith style w/ crossed sticks.

EDIT- Kimber 1911, bullet is by Redriver, work up your load please, EDIT2- You may get your best groups w/ Reddot, I have had some marvelous groups (under1"@25 rested). I have tried this bullet for plinking and small game, feeds great in my Kimber.

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