My Bore Polish Method to Shoot Better

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onondaga posted this 05 April 2012

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There are several methods to hone or polish bores. My method works well to Break-in a new barrel without shooting the firearm at all. You can also use this method on an old blackened Military bore and bring it to a slick shine that likes cast bullets. A lot of firearm manufacturers bores are not match grade or even friendly to cast bullets. The method I describe here is my own and has proven to be a simple, effective way to polish a bore with minimal or no dimensional bore change and leave a new barrel nicely broken in or an old one bright and slick.   The process will also effectively lower ballistic pressures to a small amount because the bore will give less friction to your bullets when your bore is slicker.   The Turtle Wax Chrome Polish has a very fine abrasive that is tough enough to cut and polish chrome. Most gun barrels are not that tough but some military and commercial firearms have chrome lined bores. Most barrels are Chrome-Molybdenum Steel and respond to this polishing method very well. Chrome lined bores also respond well to this method but require more pull through times with the Bore Snake. About100 ” €œ150 pulls. Stainless barrels are actually softer than Chrome/Moly barrels and take less work to polish. ”i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/BorePolish.jpg&rdquo/">   THE METHOD:   Drop the weighted end of a Hoppe's Bore Snake into the chamber and let it out the muzzle. Pull it till the thicker part is just entering the chamber. Use a syringe and put about 1 teaspoon of the chrome polish into the chamber.   Pull through 10 times and then start again with adding another teaspoon of polish for each cycle of 10 pulls.   I repeat this using one new teaspoon of polish and ten pulls per cycle. A total of 5 to 10 cycles for a total of 50 to 100 pulls will break-in a new barrel or polish one that needs a polish. When done polishing I do another 10 pulls with no added polish and that completes the job. No additional cleaning is necessary to begin shooting.   When I am done I clean the Bore Snake by soaking it in Mean Green or 409 Cleaner for ½ hour, then thoroughly rinse it and hang it to dry.   Gary    

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Buzzard Bill posted this 05 April 2012

Hey!!! Gary

I have a 1917 I got from the CMP that has good bore but is dark from shooting blanks, how do you think this will work and if so I am thinking I will need to clean the bore snake more often.

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onondaga posted this 06 April 2012

It should do the job. Just clean the bore snake after you are done. There is no need to stop and clean it during the process that I could see. If you stop to clean the snake you will remove the polishing compound from it and then will have to dry the snake before you can resume polishing.

Gary

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 06 April 2012

i love it !  lots of bang for the buck, and a grins thing to do.  i had a shooter buddy who would douse his new firearms with auto polish and  then watch tv and cycle the action until things got smooth...worked for him ...

fwiw, here are some thoughts... HONEING .. think sunnen hone ...done by spinning a mechanism, usually centrifugally expanding shoes, that generate a round hole as it is advanced thru a tubular hole.  it also can size the hole, and give a chosen grit finish all at the same time.  a great use of a hone application would be to optimize the chambers of a revolver... i should mention that there is an inexpensive hone variation available, the “brush ” type...a wire mounted collection of little balls of abrasives, you can spin this rig in a hand drill ...

LAPPING ...the object here is to fit two surfaces to each others form ....rub them together with an abrasive between them... in barrel improvement ( attempts (g) ) most commonly a melted lead slug is poured down the muzzle around a cleaning rod tip..or brush etc., pushed out the end of the barrel, and some abrasive embedded ( 270 clover is good ) ...then the rod is stroked thru the lightly oiled barrel until the soft lap gets too loose to work.  clean, check barrel, and repeat as desired.         this method is the best if you want to ---lap--- out the tight spots down the barrel ...or, at your peril, to play with a tapered diameter barrel i.d.

POLISHING ... doesn't correct size or diameter variations ...but is easy to understand and accomplish, and probably does give improvements in accuracy and especially in ease of cleaning.   and lots of personal satisfaction.. confidence often makes a gun shoot better.

i should add, deja vu. that in my experience, using a finer grit than 300 or so just makes the honing-lapping-polishing take longer... hope this helps... ken

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onondaga posted this 06 April 2012

Ken Campbell, Iowa:

My method is a polishing method it is not honing or lapping. It won't improve bores with a tight spot or heavy pitting or blown out muzzles or blown out chamber throats. It will make a pitted bore bright and slicker to improve the pitted bore performance somewhat. I don't have a cure all by any means, but this is a good bore polishing method that is pretty simple and easy.

The method eliminates using a lot of ammo and repeated cleanings for a traditional new bore break-in. You can do this at home then just start shooting a new rifle and be confident it is ” broken in” well before you take it to the range.

A nice feature of using the Hoppe's Bore Snake is that the brush segments within the snake cause the snake to rotate with the bore rifling during the pull through. The polishing is kept very even.

I don't know the exact grit size or composition of the grit in the Turtle Wax Chrome Polish. My experience has me guessing it is about 600 grit or smaller and likely aluminum oxide, silica  or carborundum because it cuts and polishes Chrome. Polishes engineered for plastics or paint won't cut and polish Chrome. I don't know for sure and the label has no info on the grit in Turtle Wax Chrome Polish, but it sure does work on chrome, chrome/moly and stainless alloys very well!!!

  My close friend has a very old .22 rim-fire rifle that was his late dad's and the bore was black as could be. He could not get the bore bright with anything he tried and doesn't remember it ever being bright for over 60 years. I did this polishing for him and the bore became mirror shiny. He swears the old gun shoots better now than it ever did and it is very easy for him to keep the bore clean and shiny now.

EDIT- I just checked the online MSDS for the Turtle Wax Chrome Polish, the abrasives in it are Pumice and Kaolin Clay. These are Silica based abrasives. Gary

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OnHoPr posted this 13 July 2012

I have been trying to gather info on breaking in a barrel. After you use your method do you still go through a firing procedure? Such as Badger Barrels compels, and other barrel manufactures as well. For example, for the first five shots, clean and cool between shots, then five three shot firings, clean and cool between groups, then five five shot firings, clean and cool between firings, then five ten shot firings, and the same procedure. This type of method is to not only to smooth out machining marks, but also to break in the barrel steels memory to prevent shot walking.

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onondaga posted this 13 July 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=5730>OnHoPr: “After you use your method do you still go through a firing procedure?"  NO.

Follow the procedure as outlined and the bore is broken in better than a shoot and clean routine. The bore is polished to a hard shine with this procedure. The firearm bore is completely broken in and ready to shoot as if it has been shot many times after a traditional break-in. Just do the procedure and start shooting.

Make sure to take no short cuts and don't invent creative options, use a genuine Hoppe's Bore Snake in the correct caliber and use genuine Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Rust Remover and a syringe.

You should expect excellent results for your effort when done correctly.

The only warning I have is that if your barrel is of particularly poor quality with rotary tool marks visible on the lands or tool marks are visible in the grooves a more aggressive method should be used first, such as a barrel cast  tool bit honing with abrasive  or fire polishing or dropping in the dumpster. Also do not use this method repeatedly to de-copper a barrel that is repeatedly copper fouled. You will eventually wear your barrel out by doing that. The method is a breakin method or a de-coppering method to use ONCE.

P.S. Always cool between shots if you are a good enough marksman to realistically expect accuracy. If you do not completely understand why shooting a hot barrel is bad for a firearm, you are lacking  an essential marksmanship skill, study up on that.   I also recommend using a clean dry  BoreSnake at the range with a single pull through after every 5 to 20 shots and 5 pull throughs at the end of your shooting session. I only clean and lube the barrel  with traditional methods at the end of the season or before any long term storage. Don't ignore other firearm action maintenance such as trigger, action, bolt care, etc.

Common sense is also needed. If you are getting leading, powder fouling or copper fouling, you need more, better maintenance and bullets that fit.

Gary

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45ACPete posted this 22 July 2012

I had to try this method on two guns--a Krag and a Swedish Mauser. Ordered the bore snakes from Midway and bought a container of the chrome polish. Started with the Swede and found it took so much effort to pull the snake through the barrel that there was no way I was going to do this 50 times--did about 25 pulls, replenishing the polish after each 5 pulls. It went much easier with the Krag, but again I only did 25 pulls. Looking over the two snakes, it actually seems like the 25/6.5 snake is bulkier than the .30 cal. snake, although the diameter of the brass bristle section is smaller. The barrels do show improvement--if they seem to shoot better next time out maybe I'll do it again.

.

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onondaga posted this 22 July 2012

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=5733>45ACPete:

Glad you gave it a try Pete. Some BoreSnake sizes do fit pretty tight. The 50 cal BoreSnake I have said it is for 50-54 caliber and it is so hard to pull through it is hard to do by myself. My 22 and 30 and 45 cal BoreSnakes are a lot easier.

I hope you get a chance to get the job done on those rifles. 25 pulls is not enough for an old Mauser or Krag.

Hope your rifles shoot better for you too. This procedure has worked very well for me. I did not say the procedure is EASY!!!!  My grandson has helped me do this and he holds the rifle while I pull with the pull cord wrapped around a 1 inch wood dowel handle.. If you have someone to help, this is a lot easier. I am very sorry, I should have mentioned that in my original post.

We did my grandsons brand new Savage 11/111 in .308 Win. right out of the box to break it in without a shot and it has shot cast bullets superbly with no leading usnig deer hunting loads with 170 grain  GC FN bullets in #2 alloy at 2162fps, he is shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards right from the start.  At the range he pulls a dry clean BoreSnake through once every 10 shots. That is his only maintenance besides action clean, lube till he has to long term store the rifle over the winter .

Pete, when I did my NEF .500 S&W Mag rifle with that tight 50-54 Cal. BoreSnake, I had my brother help me.  My 14 year old Grandson , at the time,  did not have enough strength. My brother and I took the rifle down and one of us held the barrel/forearm assembly and the other did the pulling. We took turns till we got the full 10 cycles of 10 pulls each done till we finished. We were whipped tired, sweating and drinking lemonade before we finished!!!! Incidentally, He is a Dentist and provided me the plastic syringe for squirting the abrasive paste into the chamber. He uses those syringes with silicone Dental impression material at his office and gets them by the gross.

Gary

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45ACPete posted this 22 July 2012

Gary--my arm is recovered enough, I guess. I'll give those two guns another 25 pulls each. Pete

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onondaga posted this 23 July 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=5733>45ACPete:

If you had dark bores, it is going to take 100 pulls total adding polish every 10th pull  and then an additional 10 pulls with no more polish at the end to get those bores in tip top hard shine condition for cast bullets.

Get a friend to help and some lemonade!

Gary

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mulespurs posted this 05 September 2012

I tried it on a 22 lr cal upper on an AR-15 tha t was new and cutting some lead off some bullets as it chambered them, and also had some misfires. The misfires seem to be gone and the jamming has gone away as well. I have not checked accuracy as of yet.

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Crash Landing posted this 25 September 2012

Gary I find your bore polishing method appealing and worth trying. I have an old 22RF barrel that could use a clean-up, just ahead of the chamber. Before I begin, I have one question for you about your method. I'm not claiming to know more than you about bore polishing but it seems to me that a sturdy steel cleaning rod with a chamber guide would do as good a job as Hoppe's bore snake. A tight-fitting patch could be soaked with the polish and re-saturated each 10 strokes. Does this seem like a workable alternative, or am I way off base here? Thanks

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onondaga posted this 25 September 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=4444>Crash Landing:

Don't cut yourself short, patches and a rod would take 2,000 strokes to do what a BoreSnake does in 100 with my method as described here in this post. This procedure cuts and polishes barrel steel to a hard slick shine, it is not a routine cleaning cleaning.

Maybe you haven't owned a BoreSnake or tried one. Notice the thin pulling section of the Bore Snake, that is just for pulling, but the entire long thick section is very snug and hard to pull through the bore, pulling it through just once is easily as effective as running 20 tight clean patches on a rod with one complete pass for each new patch.

Your problem sounds minor with your bore. It may just be leading from 22 RF ammo . Try using a snug fitting small cut piece of ChoreBoy pure copper kitchen pot scrubber pad in a  slotted patch tip on your cleaning rod. 10 strokes with that and Hoppe's #9 will remove the most stubborn leading. Don't use an off brand of pot scrubber that is copper plated steel. Check the pad with a magnet to make sure it is NOT steel that can ruin your rifle. Get a real Chore Boy brand scrubber.

But if you want to polish your bore next after the lead is out,  to make your bore mirror shiny with a slick hard shine that shoots better and stays easy to clean; try my method with NO substitutes or shortcuts.

Gary

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seaside posted this 16 October 2012

great information

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onondaga posted this 16 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6845>seaside:

Welcome to the forum also. The bore polishing method I've outlined really works well. I hope you give it a try when you need to. It works especially well on modestly priced new rifles to break them in and give the bore a match grade hard shine while breaking it in without a shot fired.

Gary

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seaside posted this 16 October 2012

Thanks

I recently was given a Win model 670 in 30-06.

I believe it was made in 1967 and pretty sure never fired

this is the less expensive version of the mod 70, different safety but basically the same action as the model 70

I am thinking I will use this method on that gun before firing.

do you also recommend this on a gun already broken in

I have a 270 wsm weatherby vanguard that has been shot a 100 times probably, range practice. Is this recommended for that or not?

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onondaga posted this 16 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6845>seaside:

The 670 sounds like it would benefit from the full 100 pull cycle break-in polish cycle. The other rifle, the Vanguard, if it was traditionally broken in with cleaning every 5 shots for 100 it is likely fine. If the Vanguard never had a correct break-in, it is not too late and the method will correct anything from an incomplete break-in.

Both bores will also benefit getting a hard slick shine and make maintenance easier in the future. The bore polishing method is a one time deal, don't over do it with repetition, but get the full 100 pulls the first time.

Gary

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JSH posted this 16 October 2012

Interesting thread, I may have to give this a try on a rifle or two. Suprised no one mentioned FLITZ? Maybe a little to much of a good thing? I really think the bore snakes have a place. I think there are a lot more gun barrels worn from bad cleaning habits than there ever was being “shot out". My MN M-39 looks to be a prime example from the slugs of the throat and the muzzle. jeff

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onondaga posted this 16 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2923>JSH:

I Have tried Flitz for this job! I found it much less effective than the Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Rust Remover..  Flitz is a great polish for brass but it doesn't cut and polish barrel steel hardly as well as the Turtle Wax product that has silica based abrasives engineered to cut and polish CHROME.  Flitz is also about 400% more expensive. If you are going to try this, I recommend forget the Flitz.

 It is only about $3 for 12 ounces of the stuff I recommend , Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Rust Remover, it is available at most auto departments and parts stores.

Additionally, I use the Turtle Wax product in my vibratory case cleaner. I like it better than Flitz there too. I stir in 1 teaspoon every 8-10 case polishing cycles and add a short spray of Silicone with a laundry dryer sheet cut to 2 inch squares. Run the machine without the brass about 20 minutes to distribute the polish on the media or it will clump in brass the first time. My brass comes out jewelry shiny in 4 hours with this stuff added to #12 grit walnut media from HarborFreight.

There is another polish I would like to try. It is  called Blue Away. I used to use it on my motorcycle chrome plated exhaust pipes . Blue Away is designed to polish off the heat bluing on motorcycle exhaust pipes. I bet that would work well too, but I think it was pricey.  Be careful if you try Blue Away, it is definitely more aggressive on chrome  and may be too much so for rifle barrels.

Gary

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seaside posted this 18 October 2012

The polish fluid goes on the snake “In front of the bristles” correct?

just to be clear ....

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onondaga posted this 18 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6845>seaside: That sounds a little different, but I think you got it close. I don't put the polish directly on the thick part of the BoreSnake, because then the breech edge into the chamber will squeegee it off and leave the polish in your action. When I pull the BoreSnake to just get the fat part at the chamber, I squirt the polish in front of it, into the chamber.  This keeps the polish from getting all over the thin pulling portion of the BoreSnake and keeps the polish out of your action. You don't need it there, you need the polish on the thick working portion of the BoreSnake when it is pulled into the barrel and pulling it through distributes the polish very well over the course of the job to get the bore polishing done.

The plastic syringe really helps. I have tried with a teaspoon but that was difficult and messy to get the polish in the chamber.  As long as you get it there you will be fine. The repeated pulls will distribute the polish, Just keep adding one more teaspoon every ten pulls for at total of 100 pulls. Then add no more polish and finish with the ten more pulls.

Don't forget to clean the BoreSnake when you are done. Spray soak it with Mean Green or 409, I do that in an old bowl, leave wet 1/2 hour then rinse thoroughly and hang to dry.

Gary

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Chargar posted this 20 October 2012

Did you every try this on a sixgun barrel? I have polished several with Semi-Chrome on a very tight patch and it worked wonders, but this seems like it would be easier.

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Brodie posted this 20 October 2012

Gary,  I am interested in your polishing method, but have a question.  Does your bore snake--chrome  poling method alter the throat to any great extent? I realize that the snake should align itself with the bore , but it seems that if the polish were applied unevenly to the snake (by accident of course) you could rub the leade until it would be altered in an unfortunate manner.  I realize that it would take either a fool or criminal intent to do this, but it seems possible unless the chrome polish is just not agressive enough or your arms would give out first.

I have read and have some experience with the polishing qualities of paper patched bullets and have been impressed by them. Thank You  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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onondaga posted this 21 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=144>Chargar:

I have never tried my bore polishing method on the barrel of a revolver. I haven't done a comparison with Semi-Chrome either. I am familiar with that product and have used it on motorcycle chrome. It does cut and polish chrome but couldn't begin to say if it is more or less aggressive than the Turtle Wax Chrome Polish And Rust Remover that I use. I believe the Semi Chrome is more expensive than the Turtle Wax stuff at about $3 for 12 ounces.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 21 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1118>Old Coot:

My polishing method is just that, a polishing by definition and the mild abrasive does not hone the metal dimension appreciatively at all.  I do recommend the procedure as a one time procedure to polish a bore and mention that repeatedly doing the procedure will eventually wear your bore. It is not a cleaning routine.

I don't believe my polishing method alters the chamber throat to any measurable extent when the instructions are followed.

Any pattern abrasion to unevenly wear a leade would be highly unlikely when you consider the forces going on in the procedure. Note that the bristle sections of the BoreSnake are steered rotationally by the rifling as the BoreSnake is pulled through the bore. This rotates the remainder of the snake to a degree so the abrasive action on the leade is ever-changing and unlikely to leave a patterned wear in the leade of the chamber.

The polishing compound I recommend is also not that aggressive as you note. It takes 100 pull throughs to polish the bore surface. You can certainly stop any time you wish. But the 100 pull throughs will break in a new barrel to a slick hard shine or polish out the blackening of an old one.

I also recommend 50 more strokes if the bore is chrome lined instead of the usual  Chrome Molybdenum barrel steel because pure chrome lined barrels are more abrasion resistant. And I recommend less pull throughs if the barrel is Stainless as Stainless is softer and less abrasion resistant than Chrome Molybdenum barrel steel.

Seriously, I am not writing a warranty here, I am donating a method of bore polishing  to the readers here that works for me.

Hey, http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1118>Old Coot

Have you tried chrome polish rubbed into paper patched bullets??!! That would be a hoot , Coot!

Gary

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Brodie posted this 21 October 2012

Gary, no I have not tried that yet. I have only used paper patched bullets in my Whitworth muzzle loader, and I can say that the paper patch does polish the barrel beautifully with only fifty fired through it my barrel SHINES.
I have read or others doing it though and they claim good results with even marginal bores. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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joeb33050 posted this 22 October 2012

From “SHOOTING AND FISHING", July 5, 1888 THE AMERICAN RIFLE (Development of 40 years) BY H. WARNER (Copyrighted) FALLACIES ENTERTAINED BY RIFLEMEN.

In these days of almost universal rifle practice by the young and middle-aged men of the United States, and the interminable discussion of questions incident thereto, one would naturally suppose that the requisites for a fine shooting rifle should ere this be well defined and fully understood by the majority of our marksmen.
Yet this is not the case. There are certain characteristics generally supposed to be indispensable in the make-up of a perfect shooting rifle, because so often described and dilated upon by would-be authorities on the subject, that the shooting world has come to regard them as necessary, or in the line of facts established, which may govern in all cases.
Many of the conclusions thus forced upon the shooting fraternity are misleading in their nature and at variance with facts.
Fallacy No. 1. -Among the fallacies thus established, none is more prevalent than the belief that a rifle designed for the finest shooting must be finely finished on the inside of the barrel.
Mr. W. W.Greener, of England, in a work on rifles thirty years ago, fully committed himself to this theory, and more recently Dr. E. H. Pardee, a noted rifleman on the Pacific coast, in a dissertation on “Ancient and Modern Fire Arms” (published in the Breeder and Sportsman of San Francisco, Cal.), reiterated the same opinion, in words so like those of the author first named, that they would appear to be a quotation without credit.
It is doubtless safe to assert that ninety-nine out of every one hundred marksmen of the present day adhere to the same belief. For, what is more common amongst riflemen after examining the inside of some new gun just brought to their notice, than the remark: “That gun is finely finished inside. It must shoot well! See what a polish it has!"
Notwithstanding this unity of opinion and general belief in the efficacy of high polish as an adjunct to fine shooting. I make the assertion that an extremely fine finish on the exterior of a rifle barrel is not necessary, nor even desirable, for in many (if not most) cases it will be a fruitful source of erratic shooting.
If asked to give my reasons for drawing such a conclusion, the most natural and direct answer would be that it is the result of repeated test and experiment-simply, I have found it so in practice.
To the inquiring mind such an answer would probably be unsatisfactory, and, if still disposed to controvert the deductions arrived at by experiment, and, ask me to explain why a high polish should give inferior results in shooting, the answer must necessarily partake largely of nature of opinions or theories, the correctness of which it would be difficult to demonstrate or establish in any other manner than by experiment. Theories can never stand when opposed to facts, but a little elucidation of both may serve to modify a seeming difference, and bring them nearer together.
In this view of the case I will proceed to give some other reasons for the faith that is in me.
All who are familiar with the subject will agree: First-That uniformity of condition, in gun and ammunition, during a series of shots will be more conducive to uniform shooting than a varying or changeable condition of the same.
Second-That in repeated firing, heat is the most important, if not the only element that enters in to disturb the normal condition of the gun-that friction generates heat, and therefore, the rapid passage of the projectile along the inner walls of the rifle barrel must be regarded as an accessory to the heat developed by the explosion.

This combined action of the two agents produces a heat most intense, and its influence on the barrel and projectile being as rapid as thought, it would, if of any considerable duration, be sufficient to melt a leaden projectile, but the passage of the bullet out of the barrel being so short, it seldom terminates in melting, although I have thought on two or three occasions, several years ago, that I obtained such results with extremely heavy charges of powder, in a long, heavy-barreled rifle having a chamber in the breech much larger than the bore of the gun. Be this as it may, the effect of heat on all, or nearly all, metallic substances is to expand and soften them, more or less, according to the intensity of its application. It is not, then, unreasonable to suppose that its influence as applied in the process of discharging a rifle would be sufficient to materially change the density, size and fit of the bullet. Such changes would affect the flight of the bullet just in proportion to their magnitude, and their magnitude would depend entirely upon the amount or degree of heat developed. Heat, then, seems to be the chief obstacle we encounter in our efforts to secure uniform shooting. Could we find an explosive, which developed no heat, and a projectile, which encountered no friction, we should have made a decided advance in the science of gunnery. Since we are unable to overcome the influence of heat, the best we can do is to reduce it to a minimum. It is plain we cannot dispense with, or greatly modify the explosive in general use to day, and therefore cannot hope to make much reduction in the heat developed from that source. There seems to be but one direction in which we may look for improvement. As I have previously stated, friction generates heat, and the friction of the bullet in passing along the barrel is therefore a natural ally of the explosive in producing an element so detrimental to uniform shooting, and, the worst feature of it is, that the very considerable augmentation of heat thus produced, occurs in the very spot to make it most disastrous (i.e.) on the abrading surfaces of the patch, and culminating near the muzzle of the gun, where it is so desirable that the delivery be easy and perfect.
This frictional heat is often so intense as to scorch and weaken the patch. It is to be deprecated always, and guarded against as well as circumstances will permit. Hence the frequent resort to lubricants of some kind by many of our prominent marksmen. From the above it would appear that whatever tends to reduce friction, or render it uniform, is an aid to good rifle shooting, and this brings me up to the point under discussion, and the proposition previously stated, to wit: “Extremely high polish is detrimental to fine shooting." I make this statement as a fact, substantiated by thorough test, but I offer in explanation to those who doubt it, the assumption that two surfaces finely finished and perfectly fitted to each other will adhere to each other more firmly and produce a sharper friction when moved rapidly and forcibly across each other than they would if the surfaces were more coarsely finished. In point of fact, two pieces of fine metal with flat surfaces may be so closely fitted to each other as to make it extremely difficult to separate them, or to slip one upon the other. Two surfaces fitted so closely as to exclude air or any other substance become almost like a solid piece, and the same principle holds good when applied to a gun and its projectile. If the inner walls of the barrel be polished down to a finish so level and smooth that there is no scratch on the surface deep enough to contain air or lubricant while the projectile passes over it, the result will be extreme friction-great generation of heat-a burnt patch (if there be one to burn) and an erratic shot, quite frequently, for it must be remembered, that the explosion of the powder will upset and fit the bullet to the gun, although it may not have fitted closely when put in. After the explosion the surface of the bullet will conform exactly to the surface of the gun, even to the exclusion of air which might have been between them before, and the fit thus made is not likely to become any looser on the passage out. On the contrary, the heat, generated by friction, as well as that imparted by the burning powder, would have a tendency to expand the bullet and make it fit more tightly if possible. It is this tendency to expand, and present increased obstruction to the propelling forces, thereby inducing a second upset of the bullet on its passage out, that results in wild shooting. This expansion by heat is more likely to occur in highly polished guns than in those of coarser finish, which give better facilities for lubrication, or the presence of a little air occasionally between the surface of bullet and walls of barrel. Amongst riflemen of ripe experience it is well understood that that guns by much use become (to use a common expression) “shot out” (i.e.) there is a falling off in their shooting qualities. This is usually ascribed to a worn condition of the interior, that is, to a certain extent, true; but not in the ordinary acceptation of the term worn; for, while the rifling may still be of proper depth and form, to give good results, the surface has, by continued wiping out and shooting, acquired so high a polish as to prevent it. One who is familiar with this phase of gunnery will have no difficulty in detecting it, even without looking through the rifle, as he will readily detect it in wiping the gun, or even in the report, if he listens carefully for any considerable number of shots. The remedy in such cases is to carefully work over the surface again with proper tools in such a manner as to break up the high polish and replace it with a coarser finish.

No argument intended or entertained. joe b.

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Chargar posted this 22 October 2012

About that same time Adolph (A.O.) Neidner enlisted in the US Army and was issued a Springfield 45-70 rifle. He recounts polishing the inside of the barrel, with ash from the baracks wood stove. He went on to win the company and regimental rifle competition.

Neidner as we know went on to be one of American's great gunsmith, rifle builders and experimenters. He knew a thing or two about rifle barrels and accuracy.

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onondaga posted this 22 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3>joeb33050:

"No argument intended or entertained. joe b.

Of course you intend to argue Joe. Your lying about that is obvious, reprehensible and completely unveiled. Once again you attempt to besmirch me as you attempt to besmirch many others with irrelevant, voluminous,  idiotic, manic dissertation that is antiquated nonsense  thinly related to nothing except arguing, in and of itself .

You are certainly too shiny yourself, use some tool to remove your excessive shine as your reference suggests shooters should do their bores. That may help you with the way you shoot your mouth off.

Gary

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joeb33050 posted this 22 October 2012

You'll get no argument from me. Take it up with Horace Warner, who knew something about barrels. Besmirch? joe b.

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3>joeb33050:

"No argument intended or entertained. joe b.

Of course you intend to argue Joe. Your lying about that is obvious, reprehensible and completely unveiled. Once again you attempt to besmirch me as you attempt to besmirch many others with irrelevant, voluminous,  idiotic, manic dissertation that is antiquated nonsense  thinly related to nothing except arguing, in and of itself .

You are certainly too shiny yourself, use some tool to remove your excessive shine as your reference suggests shooters should do their bores. That may help you with the way you shoot your mouth off.

Gary

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Harp posted this 23 October 2012

I am going to try your method Gary. It is confirmed by results and not just a theory.

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onondaga posted this 23 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3817>Harp:

Glad you are giving the polish a try.

I have tried to keep the method as simple as possible to be very effective. Locating the plastic syringe seems to be the hard part for some. If you refill your own ink cartridges for your printer, one of those syringes will work fine. Sometimes gun shops sell small syringes for greasing firearms also.. and I have seen glue syringes at hobby shops that would be suitable too.

If you have any suggestions for syringes to deliver the polish to chambers that would be simple and easy for others to obtain , please post them here.

Hope it comes out well for you.

Gary

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delmarskid1 posted this 23 October 2012

Dairy farmers use a plastic syringe to administer antibiotics into the cows teats in the case of mastitis. They hold about 10cc. I am looking at a 5 gram syringe filled with 0.1 micron diamond paste from Electron Microscopy Sciences. www.emsdiasum.com They have a lot of abrasives in tubes or syringes. They aren't cheap but they cut well.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 23 October 2012

delmarskid1 wrote: Dairy farmers use a plastic syringe to administer antibiotics into the cows teats in the case of mastitis. They hold about 10cc. I am looking at a 5 gram syringe filled with 0.1 micron diamond paste from Electron Microscopy Sciences. www.emsdiasum.com They have a lot of abrasives in tubes or syringes. They aren't cheap but they cut well.

Hmmmm. Time to go down to Tractor Supply.

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Harp posted this 24 October 2012

I polished my ruger hawkeye 3006 and my savage 111 6.5x55. After 25 pulls or so both rifles seemed alot smoother. Both have had several rounds through them and so I stopped at fifty. Anxious to try them both out as soon as I can get to the range. I get my syringes at tractor supply or any feed stores that sell livestock supplies.

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onondaga posted this 24 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3817>Harp:

Great you got  2 of your rifle bores polished. After the BoreSnake is clean and dry. I take them to the range with me. Every 5-10 shots I pull the dry BoreSnake through once routinely. My rifles like that too.

Gary

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CB posted this 24 October 2012

Gary, I liked your article,

even though you have no scientific evidence or no scientific years of test data or no scientific proof.

Well, I guess my opinion is of no value since I know nothing about barrels, or know nothing about gunsmithing or know nothing about chrome polish or know nothing about bore snakes or have I ever written an article in “shooting ant fishing" heck I've never even written a book.:P

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Harp posted this 24 October 2012

Just got back from the range. Loaded 31141's to 1950 fps and got inch and a quarter groups consistently. Pulled the snake through and no fouling. I believe I maybe able to push them a little higher. I am satisfied with the results.

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onondaga posted this 25 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3817>Harp:

Great results, enjoy your shooting.

Gary

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linoww posted this 25 October 2012

I used Ed's Bon-ami method on a Finn with a dark bore and it worked great.

I dont believe in breaking in new barrels with anything but shooting.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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onondaga posted this 25 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=807>linoww:

Hi George, I haven't been saying that the traditional breaking in of a bore with shooting small cycles of rounds and cleaning is a poor or second rate way to break in a bore. It is a good method when meticulously done.

However ammunition cost can be prohibitive to the point that many shooters just can't afford to break in  their rifles with the 100 round break-in/clean cycle of tradition. It really does take 100 rounds to do that well and abbreviating that does a second rate break-in job. Had I done that 100 rounds with my .458 Win Mag at $74 for 20 rounds or my .500 S&W or 30-06 that would hurt!  That would hurt even with hand loaded ammo for me. Even popular calibers like .223,  .308, 30-06, .300 WM and most all of them these days just aren't inexpensive anymore and way beyond the cost of a BoreSnake and some chrome polish that does an excellent job without even shooting one round..

A good break-in with ammo/cleaning also does little to improve the bore to get it to a hard slick shine that is then easier to clean and maintain.

I certainly respect your preference George, but I hope you give mine a try too. My Bore Polishing method is a great project to do with a new young shooter also. My grandson and I polished the bore of his new, unfired, just out of the box Savage 11/111 in .308 and it shoots well and cleans wonderfully easy for him.

Gary

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linoww posted this 25 October 2012

My grandson and I polished the bore of his new, unfired, just out of the box Savage 11/111 in .308 and it shoots well and cleans wonderfully easy for him."

maybe it would have done better before? You may have ruined it!

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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onondaga posted this 25 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=807>linoww;

Well George, now you have put me in a position to brag, thanks. Here is Colin's load that we worked up for his new rifle:

Lee C309-170-FN, ( this mold has been honed to drop .3125” bullets ) Sized/Checked .3105” tumble lubed 45:45:10 Recluse once before and twice after size/check for his .308 Win.

Powder charge: 34.1 grains AA2230 Velocity = 2291 fps verified, ES=33 fps Lee Collet Neck Size Die used and also Lee FCD was used to close case mouth flair and crimp .001" Group size @100 yards is consistently less than 1 inch for Colin with several groups at .075-.085". He keeps getting better.  I have grouped this load out of his rifle at under .600” several times. This is a cast bullet deer hunting load with a 170 grain flat nose gas checked bullet in #2 alloy at a velocity many shooters would not even expect to have results near what has been accomplished with cast bullets in a Savage 11/111.

George, I don't think the rifle was ruined!! I also don't think it would be shooting so well without the bore polishing either.

Gary

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linoww posted this 26 October 2012

A sporter .308 consistently grouping under 1” would win all CBA matches entered.Enter a match with it as you have a one in a million rifle.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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fa38 posted this 26 October 2012

My nephew polished out his Model 70 Winchester .270 with several grits of diamond polish the final grit being 1200. The bore had a very high shine to it.

It then gathered copper fouling from shooting those other bullets. He would clean out the copper and the next shooting session would lay down another layer of copper. The accuracy went to hell after about 10 shots each time. He figured that he got the bore too smooth.

He never shot any cast lead through the rifle so I don't know if perhaps his barrel would have worked for cast like yours does.

The reason for the above is, have you tried shooting jacketed bullets after you bore polish method and if so did you get any copper fouling?

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onondaga posted this 26 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=807>linoww:

Thanks, It is not a one in a million rifle but it does shoot. The shine really works for my rifles with cast bullets.

A shooter at my club is a trigger guy for a local city SWAT and complains that his heavy Rem 700 rifle in .308 Win. won't group less than 1 inch at 100 yards with the factory match ammo he is required for duty use and practice. His Match ammo consistently groups 1.0 to 1.125” for him.  He grouped a .694” three shot with Colin's rifle and smiled ear to ear at the cast bullets. He declined to shoot the rifle more but  gave Colin a bunch of empty match brass. He said he is going to buy a Savage for himself for non duty.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 26 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=562>fa38:

I'd expect something different with 1200 grit polishing also. Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Rust Remover has grit more than twice that size at my estimation.

More than 95% of my shooting is with cast bullets.

My .223 varmint rifle has had its bore polished and since the polishing I have shot mostly all cast except 50 rounds this spring to see if it shot OK with some saved hand-loads with jacketed varmint bullets. After the polish and all the cast bullets,  I didn't notice any coppering of the bore with my routine of pulling the bore snake through every 5 rounds at the bench. A cleaning at home after the 50 jacketed bullets was not remarkable. The original problem and reason that I polished the bore of that rifle was still gone. The rifle is a NEF Ultra Varmint  and it suffered from first shot high problem until I polished the bore.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 October 2012

gary sez:

improve the bore to get it to a hard slick shine


your polishing suggestions have been really helpful, and should contribute to improved performance with less hassle ...  for many shooters   ..  a great step forward .

i notice you include the term “   hard   “   in describing the shine ...not to nickpick, but do you mean...hard ... as in surface tensile strength ....  or just  “  hard “...  as in hard astern ...  ?

i can't see how polishing might increase the ....brinel number ... of steel, it doesn't create work-hardening  nor heat enough to heat harden  ...

just wondering... ken

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 October 2012

this is in reference to recent discussions about bores being too slick for ( lead ) and/or ( jacketed ) bullets.

i hesitate using my 22 rimfire experience as ...data ...    to dump into the cast centerfire hopper ....  but even tho i done been casterball shooting for some 50+ years, i still don't have from casters  the elbow-length results of some ~million rounds fired in my ears  from the (  faux-cast ?   )  rimfire rigs.

for those getting bored already ( me too ) ....the results are , to me, inconclusive .... new barrels, lapped with 270 grit ..... no further finer polish ...  shot the same as a 75000 rounds fired barrel ...   probably don't get smoother than that.  both types were found in the very top (5%?? ) of national point leaders.

(  sigh ...)  sounds as if we are right back at the start of our quest for some magic potion for shooting RealSmallGroups.  heh heh .

here is something that does improve things: new barrels from some of the makers come pre-honed and/or lapped.   but when chambered, even with a new cutter ( reamer )...  little burrs are left from the fracturing of the barrel material by the cutter.  so, since it only takes an hour or so to LEAD LAP a barrel  (  figure 4 hours the 1st time, to get your dedicated items together ) ... if you wanna give your barrel the best chance of doing well ....just lead lap it in the first place.  polishing is great, but lapping is terrific.  a bonus of lapping is that you can approach getting a consistent diameter down your barrel.   250-300 grit is as fine as you need.... polish it more later if you like...it shines brighter....and let us know if high polish works for you.

270 grit lapping can take out the bumps...then polishing can make your evenly smooth barrel prettier.   if you just do the fine polishing first, you just have pretty bumps down your barrel !    gary and our late friend Molly have proven that shiny bumps are a fair improvement.   with lapping, i have built several bumpless rimfire guns that will shoot lots of zero's.

like one good dog, and one good woman ...every man deserves one good gun that will shoot one zero group...once in a lifetime ...

i've had all three !   gulp!   wonder if i'm runnin' short ...

(g) ken

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onondaga posted this 26 October 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=40>Ken Campbell, Iowa:

I have discussed polishing after honing and think it is a great combination. My polishing method will not take high spots off or remove constrictions. Polishing , by definition should not change the dimension of metal appreciatively at all, just shine it. Of course the closer to a shine it already is the easier the shine will be to accomplish. After a 270 grit hone,  a shine comes up pretty easily with my polishing method. 50 pull throughs of the BoreSnake with polish added every 10 pulls should bring the shine up on a Chrome Moly barrel that has already been honed previously.

I chose the words “hard” slick shine purposely. Of course the polishing does not increase the hardness of the bore. The polishing does even the surface of the bore and give it the appearance of a hard wax shine like Johnson's Paste Wax does to a wood floor. Actually, that is specifically why I chose to use the adjective “Hard". The polishing does make the bore look like it has a hard slick shine. It feels that way if you touch and gently drag a probe on the surface of the bore also. You can feel the difference after using my bore polishing method.

Ken, If you have done some 270 grit honing with a lead tool to get the bumps out and burrs out, my polishing method will still improve the shine of the bore that I believe cast bullets love. There is little else that can be done to remove bumps and burrs well beside lead tool honing with abrasive. However, tool honing is a qualitative job also and tool honing poses the risk of rounding the sharpness of the rifling. The tool itself minimizes  the rounding effect but it does happen. Fortunately, a subsequent bore polishing will at least put a shine to the rounded rifling edges and make it easier to clean and  nicer to shoot cast bullets.

Ken, if you try my polishing method, I am very confident you will feel the difference immediately if you run a standard jag/patch through the bore and note how it feels to your fingers holding your cleaning rod. This is how all my rifles feel.

Gary

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 October 2012

gary sez:

However, tool honing is a qualitative job also and tool honing poses the risk of rounding the sharpness of the rifling. The tool itself minimizes  the rounding effect but it does happen.

ken sez:

thanks for the comeback....   regarding : rounded off ” rifling....i have seen this.... topic ... mentioned occasionally... but never with any DATA  ..  heh ....   i always wondered if rifling form being rounded didn't just mean it must be real smooth (g) ...i would think the little side force vectors would be the same...round or sharp, given the same depth.    was obermyer rifling round ?   never owned one, memory not that good ...

it would be seemingly interesting to do a shooting comparison of 90^ vs. rounded rifling .....  but experience tells us that even consecutive, ” identical ” barrels don't shoot the same groups....  let alone most caster shooters don't use those ugly barrel tuners ....    so many variables ... so little factory sponsorship to buy my primers ...

time to go move my bean cans a little closer      ken

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 21 November 2012

I too question the affect of (JUST) the edges being rounded. From email converstions with several barrel manufacturers 10 or 15 years ago, their comments were that it didn't make any difference in accuracy.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 21 November 2012

a week ago, while joisting at the windmill of organizing my hobby area, i found a can of turtle wax chrome polish ...hmmmm ...

with a cup of patience and some q-tips, i stripped y removed the recoil spring from my beretta 92/9 mm ...   and glopped contact surfaces with the turtle droppings ....   rack and roll, so to speak ...   it took 600 by count racks ...  but wow did my little home companion get    s m o o t h  ... 

makes me think the t.c.polish is fairly mild, it took 2 hours  and a whole bowl of popcorn .... yep it was worth it ...  

trivia r us ken

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onondaga posted this 21 November 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=40>Ken Campbell, Iowa:

The polish is pretty mild, That is a good thing for the way I recommend using it in a bore.

I have also used the Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Rust Remover to do “in situ trigger sear polishing “.  Did it on my Remington Spartan single shot rifle after spring lightening by removing stocks  from the action, repeatedly squirting polish into the trigger parts and cocking /dry firing on a snap cap about 200 times. The long trigger creep at least became smooth where it had been rough and jumpy. So, it helped.

I cleaned with copious amounts of Automotive Gunk spray and then an air gun.  Blue Wonder Disotec XFR premium lubricant on the trigger parts completed the job well. The horrible 10 pound trigger came down to a smooth, long 3 pounds with a surprise let-off.

Gary

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McPlink posted this 25 November 2012

Gary - Thank you very much for the initial write-up. I've just purchased a Ruger #1 in 45/70 and have yet to take it to the range and go through the tedium of barrel break in. I've used the tried and true “shoot and clean” methods with varying results no matter how consistent I've tried to be. I was not looking forward to the time and $$ effort on this big bore. Your method gives me a brand new opportunity at this chore. And as it's been mentioned, barrels can be “broken in” again if necessary. Thank you for your insight. Patrick

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onondaga posted this 25 November 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6963>McPlink:

The polishing break-in job is a LOT easier with a helper!!!

A new .45 cal BoreSnake and a bottle of Turtte Wax Chrome Polish And Rust Remover costs less than just one box of 45-70s, Your rifle will be ready to just start shooting after the process. So, do it and start shooting.

A helper can either do the rifle holding or the pulling, make some ice tea....it takes a good hour and please make no substitutions or take any short cuts so you get the full benefit of the bore polishing for your break-in....100 pulls and add new polish every 10 pulls.

CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR NEW #1 in 45-70 !

Gary

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olesmokey posted this 09 July 2013

Onondaga, Polished my ruger bhawk .357. Gun had less than 500 rounds through it. Bore looked a little rough. Kinda like cutter chattered down the grooves leaving little tool lines perpendicular to the bore axis. Looks smoother now. Maybe it wont lead so bad now or at least clean up easier.

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onondaga posted this 09 July 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7625>olesmokey:

My polish method will not really remove chatter marks. The polish is only a deep  polish and not a honing. Polishing will not change bore dimension only shine it up. Maybe the shine will help with leading, but if you have chatter marks, only honing and maybe fire polishing with abrasive coated bullets will help that.

Gary

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olesmokey posted this 09 July 2013

I did try fire polishing. Didnt accomplish much,besides I didnt want to over do it. I got better results with the boresnake.Thanks..It does look smoother.

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Borchy posted this 18 August 2013

Gary, I recently purchased a P14 Enfield that has a very dark bore. I have tried to purchase the Turtle Wax Chrome polish in my home state of Tasmania (Australia) with no luck. The auto parts stores I have visited tell me that whilst this polish is on the manufacturer' website, it is not imported to Aussie. I can purchase Autosol metal polish (made in Germany) that states it will polish chrome. Have you any knowledge of this polish and would it be OK in polishing the P14' bore? Grateful for your advice. From Borchy

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Borchy posted this 18 August 2013

Gary, I recently purchased a P14 Enfield that has a very dark bore. I have tried to purchase the Turtle Wax Chrome polish in my home state of Tasmania (Australia) with no luck. The auto parts stores I have visited tell me that whilst this polish is on the manufacturer' website, it is not imported to Aussie. I can purchase Autosol metal polish (made in Germany) that states it will polish chrome. Have you any knowledge of this polish and would it be OK in polishing the P14' bore? Grateful for your advice. From Borchy

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onondaga posted this 18 August 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7698>Borchy

If the maker says it will polish Chrome, that means that the abrasive is hard enough to cut chrome enough to polish and not a soft abrasive like those used to polish plastic or aluminum.

My only concern would be grit size of the polishing particles. The grit size in the Turtle Wax Chrome polish is about 400- 500 grit (particles per inch) and is composed of Kaolin Clay and Pumice in a paste wax based polishing compound.

If the grit in your polish is finer or coarser, you will need to increase or decrease the amount of pull troughs with the bore snake. For example, the common really nice polish called Flitz (an expensive one) is finer in grit size than the Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Flitz will take 150 pulls instead of the 100 with turtle wax polish. Blue Away motorcycle exhaust pipe polisher is coarser than Turtle Wax Chrome polish and Blue Away would take about 75 pull troughs and not leave the bore as shiny, but very serviceable and clean/shiny none the less.

I decided on the Turtle Wax Chrome Polish because of the serviceable grit size to do the job and the very inexpensive cost. Actually any paste wax based polishing compound with an abrasive of 400-500 grit size that is suitable to cut and polish Chrome should be safe with the method I have described with the BoreSnake. You should be able to use the BoreSnake and my polishing method to get your P14 bore clean and shiny bright so it will then be easy to maintain it that way.

 Best wishes,

Gary

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NYBushBro posted this 19 August 2013

Has anyone tried this polishing method with a Russian (or other chrome-lined) SKS barrel?

I'm signed up for the 'improved' Harris HEAVY METAL mold (on another forum), and would like to shoot this bullet in the SKS... but perhaps the Bore-snake method might be a pre-requisite before working up an accurate load with this bullet.

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onondaga posted this 19 August 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6830>NYBushBro

I have polished the chrome lined bore of my Russian made Remington import Spartan rifle in 7.62X39mm. It shoots cast less than 1/2” @50 yds using the 165 gr RD FNGC bullet in #2 alloy and tumble lubed 45:45:10 at ~ 2000 fps.

The chrome plate  is harder than chrome/Moly barrels so I used 150 pulls  with the BoreSnake loaded every 10 pulls with chrome polish per my method.

Gary

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Rich/WIS posted this 24 August 2013

Gary,

Tried your method on my CMP 03A3, barrel was good but a lot of tool marks. After 50 passes the bore is bright and the tool marks have all but disappeared. It would shoot cast into 1.5” at 25 yards and plan to get out this weekend and see if things have improved. I have another I built from a drill receiver that has a used barrel so smooth it looks as though it had been lapped and polished and it consistently shoots cast better than the CMP rifle. Hoping the polishing will produce equal accuray, will post results.

Rich

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Rich/WIS posted this 25 August 2013

Gary,

Went out today. At 25 yards group did tighten up to about 1” +- center to center. This was for ten shots with an 03A3. Did notice that grouping was very consistent, no odd man out shots, all were clustered nicely. Thanks for posting your method, it worked for me.

Rich

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onondaga posted this 25 August 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=5297>Rich/WIS

You are welcome Rich. Glad the polishing helped with accuracy and the rifle bore should be easier to maintain too.

Gary

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Garyshome posted this 08 December 2013

I might try that on my Mosin.

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onondaga posted this 08 December 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7861>Garyshome

I hope you do and comment back. Be aware that creative substitutions and shortcuts murder this method. The materials are easy to locate and work well with my thorough instructions and the full amount of pull through sequences.

Gary

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Mal posted this 09 April 2014

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7861>Garyshome

I hope you do and comment back. Be aware that creative substitutions and shortcuts murder this method. The materials are easy to locate and work well with my thorough instructions and the full amount of pull through sequences.

Gary  G'day Gary,                  Want to try ,can't buy TWCPRR in Australia , any thoughts, have seen some on evil bay at silly prices.     Thanks , Mal.

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onondaga posted this 09 April 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7565>Mal

I selected the Turtle wax chrome polish and rust remover because of the type and particle size of the abrasive grit within it. The grit specifics is what leads to the count of pulls through of the BoreSnake. It is 400-500 size grit of Kaolin Clay and Pumice in a petro/wax creamy base.

If you gan get a creamy polish that will cut smooth and polish light scratches from CHROME it will work. Polishes for plastics and paint finishes are too mild. There is a lot of motorcyclists where you live...what do they buy to polish the blue away from their chrome exhaust pipes and shine them up.....try that. If the polish you get is too coarse, Less pulls through will be needed and the opposite if it is not coarse enough.

You don't need an expensive polish, just the right size/ kind of grit in it. The The turtle wax stuff is very cheap here, $3-4 per 12 oz.

Gary

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Mal posted this 09 April 2014

Thanks for that Gary will search around for a sub. For TWCPRR here in Aus .                 BTW enjoy your posts very informative.                                            Cheers Mal.

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billglaze posted this 16 April 2014

Friends of mine have uses BluOff, (sp?) and Blu Away, and in several cases at the end of 2 uses, enough of the chrome was removed to show either the copper preparatory plating, or the steel of the pipe underneath. We postulated that it actually contained a chemical chrome remover as one of the components. Don't know if that's true or not, but be very careful when using.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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onondaga posted this 16 April 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=5098>billglaze

That is a good caution to give for the chrome polishes. I have noted specificlly that BlueAway in particular is more aggressive than Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Rust Remover that I do recommend in previous posts. The Turtle Wax stuff does the job on Chrome Moly barrels with 100 pulls through per my instructions. I can't make an exact recommendation for BlueAway but I am familiar with it being more aggressive and have personally seen it do just as you say on motorcycle exhaust systems on my own bikes!

Gary

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cheatermk3 posted this 17 May 2014

Hi Gary I finally got through all of this thread, and I'd like to try your polishing method on one of my M39 Mosin-Nagant rifles. 

I shoot it in CBA military matches and have pretty good results, but I'm having trouble maintaining a good bore condition over the course of the 60+ rounds I usually need to complete a 40-rounds-for-record match. 

Since I've never used a boresnake, I'm wondering--just how long is a 30 caliber boresnake--will it be long enuff for a Mosin?

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onondaga posted this 18 May 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=8050>cheatermk3:

Just checked my 30 cal BoreSnake, Total length is 68 inches. The thicker cleaning floss area with internal small brush is 32 inches and the thinner pull cord section with weighted end makes up the rest of the 68” total length. I believe it would be fine for the longest of rifles.

Gary

This is the one I use in 30 Cal:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/398345/hoppes-boresnake-bore-cleaner-rifle-308-30-30-30-06-300-303-caliber?cm_vc=ProductFinding>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/398345/hoppes-boresnake-bore-cleaner-rifle-308-30-30-30-06-300-303-caliber?cmvc=ProductFinding

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45ACPete posted this 18 May 2014

Gary--the last time I started in on giving my Swedish Mauser another 25 pulls I thought that there might be an easier way. I straightened out a coat hanger--used a vise and also a hammer on a flat surface, then formed a hook at one end and with a lot of filing ended up with something that looks like a crochet hook. Sandpaper and elbow grease smoothed out all the rough surfaces. I drilled a hole in the brass end of the bore snake and now, with the gun held in my padded vise I can slide the wire down the bore, hook into the snake (lubed with TW chrome polish) and pull the snake on through. It is an easier one man job.

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onondaga posted this 18 May 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=5733>45ACPete That is ingenious for doing the job solo Pete.

With teamwork, I wrap the free end around a screwdriver handle or 1” dowel to make it easier and more secure to grab.

Gary

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cheatermk3 posted this 19 May 2014

Gary, I was in Walmart today and they had boresnakes and turtle wax CCRR so I got some of each and started in on your polishing method. 

First thing I noticed was that it took some effort to start the boresnake into the chamber; I wound up (after removing the bolt of course) having to hold the gun vertical and wiggle it to get the weighted end to pass thru the bore.  Next, I was surprised when pulling the snake through how easy it was--I wrapped the cord around two fingers and pulled thru easily with one hand.

"This can't be right” I thought so after making another 9 passes-thru I looked the boresnake over, the brass weight was stamped 30 so I guess it's correct for 30 caliber.  The package label said for 308, 30-06, etc. so it ought to be the right one.  My bore slugs 301/309. 

So I kept going, reasoning that maybe after the boresnake got loaded up more it would get progressively more difficult to pull through but that did not happen, so I stopped after 4 sets of 10pulls/add 1teaspoon of polish.

I then gave it up for now and patched the bore with Hoppes #9 and wiped all the TWCCRR off the stock and everywhere else it got and washed it out of the action with some spray stuff I use for that purpose.

I don't think I accomplished anything besides a good cleaning (and a good start on a charley horse from twirling a 10-pound rifle around like a cheerleader's baton).

 I'm wondering if the boresnakes one gets from Wallyworld are somehow different from what Midway has in stock?  I'm really surprised that it was so easy to pull thru.  Also, the bristle-brush section was barely .312” diameter and less than 2” in length. I'm thinking about returning it as defective and maybe going to a 32 caliber snake?

What do you think?

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45ACPete posted this 20 May 2014

I have boresnakes for both 6.5 and .30 cal. The .30 cal. snake is MUCH easier to pull through the barrels of my .30's than the 6.5 through my Swedish Mauser.

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onondaga posted this 20 May 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=8050>cheatermk3 My 50 cal BoreSnake is a bear to pull through my 50 cal rifle but the 30 cal is pretty easy in 30 cal rifles. It is only a few pounds pull to get the 30 through and it has done the job with polish on 3 rifles. If you feel the thick cleaning floss area is undersize on yours, then return it. I did not know a 32 cal was available. That would likely be snug, but if the 30 cal feels like it has definite contact with the full bore and some resistance I believe it will work.

I wish I could see how yours feels and you could try mine but you will have  to decide on the choice.

Gary

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RicinYakima posted this 20 May 2014

I only have one, a 338 size, that I use from 358 Norma down to 275 Rigby. Fit all OK. Ric

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cheatermk3 posted this 20 May 2014

Gary- Just guessing on the 32 cal size-don't know if they make one either. The 30 is making contact alright it stretches out and I can feel it making contact just not enuff, in my mind, to be doing any polishing.  If I were trying to polish something by hand(eg the outside of the barrel) I'd be rubbing much harder than the snake is rubbing the bore. 

Ric Thanks for the input I may try later with a 338 size snake

Then again, for what I'll have in 2 boresnakes I could have a coupla thousand top-quality patches which when wrapped around a well-used brush are what I normally use for tough cleaning jobs.

Considering the effort involved in maneuvering the rifle to get the snake thru the bore I think I'll go that route using the TWCCRR.  It'll take more strokes but each one will be far less work.

EDIT: Found a 32 calboresnake at Sportsmans warehouse in Vancouver--looks like the carry the entire line 20-50 cal. plus 22-50 cal pistol types.

Did the entire process on a type 53 Mosin.  will shoot it tomorrow.

Much easier to manuver the carbine than the scoped M39 Finn.

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cheatermk3 posted this 08 June 2014

The bore on the T53 was not cleaned up to the point that it benefited from Gary's shine-up routine, as evidenced by it's appearance after only 3 CB rounds.

On the other hand, my M39 which has a nice bore showed improvement as it was markedly less fouled after shooting 70 rounds in our military match on Wednesday 6/4 (after only 30 passes with the loose-fitting boresnake).

So it's thumbs up from me for the TWCCRR treatment as Gary recommends it.

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gpidaho posted this 28 October 2014

Gary: I tried your break-in method on a new 223 as per your recommendation using the regular bore snake not the newer version. When I got to the mid seventys count the starting cord ripped off the main cleaning portion. Not being one to give up on a project easily I went to an older gun shop, not the big box store, to get another snake.(18 More $) This snake had been on the shelf awhile and was a bit smaller than the one I started with and makes me suspect that there may be more variations in size of the Hoppe's snakes than just the new two models. None the less I fired 25 rounds of jacketed bullets on the first outting (I've never done that before on a new barrel when breaking one in) and there was no copper fouling and the clean-up was very easy. Thanks for the tip,it's a winner in my opinion and will be the first thing done to new rifles from now on. GP

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joeb33050 posted this 28 October 2014

I'd like to see a before and after test. Five 5 shot 100 yard groups with a broken in barrel, before and after the snake. Anyone? 

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onondaga posted this 28 October 2014

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3>joeb33050

I bet you would Joe, so would I.  I developed the method to see if polishing would cure cold shot high problem and it has for me and has for numerous others that have followed instructions and reported back to me. The polishing also breaks in a barrel with zero shots and makes cleaning easier. It will also polish old black military bores and make them easy to clean.

I have personally run out of new rifles that need a break-in right now but would not hesitate to use my method on the most expensive of rifles to break it in. It is only a polish Joe, it does not change bore dimensions. It saves ammo for break-in making a rifle ready to shoot with no shoot and clean traditional break-in needed at all.

Gary

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shootzem6.5 posted this 27 December 2014

onondaga, my mistake, hone the bore, not lap the  bores.

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shootzem6.5 posted this 04 January 2015

I save my targets, therefore i may be able to provide before and after comparisons. But, i shoot 3 shot groups and the targets i have are with 52 Sierra HPMK, and i just finished the TWCPRR honing this evening. 1st 20-ish pulls where showing some trapped lead, after that for another 75-ish pulls just a uniform light grey colored TW. As soon as the outside temp gets back to the low 30s ill try to get up to the club. Then all i have to do is figure out how to get the pics out of the camera and on to this site. @Onandaga, great method you`ve devised, the bore of my 50 + yr old 340B shows an even gleam from chamber to muzzle and since TW is approx. the same grit as Valve grind compound i used it for the home trigger job you mentioned in another thread. After a light lube in the bore the barreled action is hanging above the furnace to help ensure the trigger group is dry before it gets lubed. (no drier on my compressor)

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onondaga posted this 04 January 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=8712>shootzem222

My experience with accuracy improvement after the bore polish is very minimal and shows up on long range 10 shot groups where all shots count. A few percent lower in group size is average. The biggest benefit from the polishing is less and easier maintenance because the bore is shiny to a slightly finer finish than a factory bore.

Your old 340B bore gleaming from chamber to muzzle is typical for results from my polishing method and the rifle should be easier to maintain from now on.

Be sure to clean your BoreSnake as discussed and take it to the range so you can pull it through dry and clean once every 5 rounds. That will keep your bore condition  very constant and be a significant factor in lowering group size compared to before the polishing treatment.

Do not make the mistake of using stainless steel bore brushes after all your work. The SS brushes will destroy your polish job. When you do a traditional clean at end of season or before long term storage,  use brass, bronze or synthetic bristle brushes. The only bore cleaner I use is the very pleasantly odorless and effective Hoppe's Elete gel or liquid and after cleaning I use JPW (Johnson's Paste Wax) patched in, allowed to dry and then buffed with a fluffy bore mop. That will easily hold a bore protected from rust for several years storage.

Gary

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codarnall posted this 12 April 2015

No chemicals. Especially NaOH and EDTA. Ammonia dissolves Cu and will not attack the Fe. Do not turn your barrel into a alkaline battery. EDTA is a great degreaser and will also de-blu your finish. Ultra cleaning calls for real rust protection when all is done! I attritube a lot of my gray hair to my not so great ideas.---Charlie

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Scearcy posted this 26 February 2017

PICTURES!

My barrel is an almost new Remington SS takeoff.  When it arrived in the mail, I put a bore scope in it and decided it would benefit from a little work. What I have here are before and after pictures.  Its difficult to tell from the pictures but they are taken of the same two places in the barrel, as close as I could.

I used Gary's method exactly: 10 teaspoons of Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and rust remover with 10 full pulls of the bore snake for each teaspoon.  Start to finish the procedure took about 1/2 hour once I had the materials at hand.

The two following pictures are before. The following post will have the after pictures.

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Scearcy posted this 26 February 2017

After:

 

 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 27 February 2017

just a thought ... re::  before-after comparisons of accuracy ...

whether bore polishing or re-bedding ... or twisting your barrel tuner ... you can't really use the same load to show a change in accuracy .... i just mention this because i see posts/magazine articles doing this from time to time .

this is similar to extensive tests of every known 22 rimfire brand in 1 or more guns ..... without trying a full range of tuner settings for each box and also lot of ammo .  no wonder we get confused .

just rambling    ken

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onondaga posted this 27 February 2017

just a thought ... re::  before-after comparisons of accuracy ...

whether bore polishing or re-bedding ... or twisting your barrel tuner ... you can't really use the same load to show a change in accuracy .... i just mention this because i see posts/magazine articles doing this from time to time .

this is similar to extensive tests of every known 22 rimfire brand in 1 or more guns ..... without trying a full range of tuner settings for each box and also lot of ammo .  no wonder we get confused .

just rambling    ken

 

Just a thought, there is a Joe B. on every forum too.

 

Gary

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Wineman posted this 23 August 2017

Gary,

I have a M1917 Enfield that is a copper magnet. Original 1918 5-Groove barrel. Shoots nice but is a chore to clean. Well after a lengthy Sweets treatment I thought I would give your technique a try. I only had regular Turtle Wax chrome polish w/o rust remover, but I did have an original 30 caliber Bore snake. After one set of 10 pulls, I got tired of picking up the rifle and dropping the BS down the barrel. I looked around and found a three foot piece of 0.105" string trimmer line and some heat shrink tubing. I shrunk the tubing to the brass weight and the trimmer line. Now I could leave the rifle in a cleaning cradle and push the trimmer line through and then pull the Bore Snake through. I found that if I made short pulls I could keep the string from hitting the edge of the crown and kept the main part of the BS straight. I did 10 x 10 pulls with 5 cc of Chrome Polish every tenth pull. Afterwards, I pushed a couple of patches of CLP through and they seemed to slide through much easier than previously. Wishful thinking?

I will update everyone when I get a chance to range test this puppy.

Bore Snake Modification

Thanks,

Dave

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onondaga posted this 23 August 2017

Dave

You managed to make handling the BoreSnake easier to handle for yourself, A helper would have made the job a lot easier even with your aid.

I am not familiar with the Turtle Wax Chrome Polish "without rust remover" and cannot vouch if it has the same abrasive as the one with rust remover that I have tested and recommend. I hope it works well for you.

Remember that chemical etches to remove copper after my polishing method will degrade the shine you worked so hard for and increase coppering. If you still have coppering, don't repeat my method, you need to do something more aggressive like fire polishing with progressive grits.

Rough finish and tool chatter cause coppering. My polishing will shine it very well and fix coppering unless it was deep chatter causing the coppering, but there will still be improvement and pulling a dry/clean BoreSnake through once every 5th shot does a lot to keep bore condition constant for best accuracy.

Gary

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Wineman posted this 24 August 2017

Gary,

An assistant would have been nice but due to my schedule, I needed to do it in three settings to get to 100+30 pulls. It went well as I was able to hold the handguard with one hand and pull the Bore Snake with the other.

I looked and it is Turtle Wax Chrome Polish AND Rust Remover. It just happens to be in a green bottle instead of a white one:

https://www.turtlewax.com/our-products/renew-restore/turtle-wax-chrome-polish-rust-remover

This rifle gets both cast and jacketed but mostly jacketed. I usually use a M1903A3 for most cast Match shooting.

At a match moving the rifle to get the Bore Snake in is sometimes tricky. Now that I can leave it on the bags and feed it horizontally, I may be able to use it every five shots.

I'll let you know if the copper problem returns. I may need to get more aggressive if that is the case.

Dave

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onondaga posted this 24 August 2017

Dave,

To make the Hoppe's BoreSnake handier at the range, I stretch the pulling section hard to get the curls out and the brass weight drops more freely with the rifle completely vertical and dropping the snake weight straight down. If the pulling cord section is curly it won't drop through freely and stretching it first really helps. I let it hang over the bench between uses to keep it straight too and don't roll it up till I go home because I use it once every 5 shots.

My 1903A3 shoots one bullet better than any other, the Lee C312-185-1R cast in certified Lyman #2 Alloy, sized/checked at .3115" for  an ink verified slide fit on chambering. I use tumble lube once before size/check and twice after. All coats are minimal. I use Whites Deluxe 45:45:10 warmed and bullets warmed too. My gas checks are Aluminum from member *Sage's Outdoors. This Lee bullet consistently shoots 5 shot groups under 1" at 50 yards with issue sights using H4895 at 2050 fps from my 1903A3.  For hunting, I hollow point that same bullet on loaded ammo with the Forster large HP tool in a drill press. If you haven't tried that bullet, I highly recommend it for the bench and for Deer when hollow pointed. Either way, HP'd or not,  it shoots to the same POI for me and it is all I shoot from the rifle now.

* http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/

 

Gary

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Wineman posted this 26 August 2017

Gary,

Thanks for the tips and encouragement! My M1903A3 is kind of an odd duck. It is short chambered and has a large throat. My best bullet has been the Lee 312-160 TL with the WLL 45:45:10 and 16 of Aliant 2400. I am working on a load with a 312299, seating the GC in a 0.314 L:ee die and tapering the front band to 0.311" in a Lyman 45 pushing the bullet nose first, and a 28 grain load of Varget. Sometimes this rifle is dead nuts on and sometimes it has a mind of its own. Ah the thrill of the chase... I don't have that mould but if you have a few laying around, I would happily pay postage to try some out, just cast them as fat as you can.

All the best!

Dave

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onondaga posted this 26 August 2017

Dave, mine drop .314+ in #2 but all are loaded right now and health is restraining me. I hope you get the mold and try it.

Gary

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 August 2017

dave ... i have a new lee 312 185-1r that i never used, as i am plinking with shorter bullets ... be glad to send it to you to play with/buy cheap if it works for you .  pm me if .

ken

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Wineman posted this 27 August 2017

Gary,

I'll think good thoughts and hope you get your Mojo back.

Ken, PM sent.

Dave

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