Bullet hardness for .45 Colt ?

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  • Last Post 27 February 2012
Slug Gun posted this 24 January 2012

Just bought a Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt and would like to buy some commercial cast bullets for now just to get some lead down range before choosing a bullet mould and casting bullets myself.

I'm concerned that most commercial cast bullets are too hard to obturate with the lighter loads I'd be shooting in this revolver. I plan to load 9 grs. of Unique and also some black powder loads.

Who sells cast bullets of an acceptable hardness to obturate with loads suitable for this revolver and what Brinell or Saeco harness should I be looking for ?

THANKS

 

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RicinYakima posted this 24 January 2012

No one sells “good” cast bullets for the 45 Colt light loads. However, consider buying Remington's standard 45 Colt bullets, swaged, soft and concave based.

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Slug Gun posted this 24 January 2012

Thanks for the reply Ricin Yakima. That is what I'm finding out. Seems all of the manufacturer's are prowd of making there bullets harder then “woodpecker lips” which will cause gas cutting with my lighter loads. You'd think in America, someone would manufacture bullets with the correct hardness with Cowboy Action Shooting being so popular.

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oscarflytyer posted this 24 January 2012

I am casting the Lee 255 LSWC out of WW + 2% tin.  Probably about BHN of 12.  Not sure, haven't tested - but they work fine in both my 45 Colt and also same alloy in a 44 SPC - all up to prob about 1000 fps.  THey are all sized to .001 over bore size which helps.

Good luck on finding commercial bullets.  There are one or two out there who will customize bullets for you, but haven't kept up since I cast my own now.

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Dale53 posted this 25 January 2012

Slug gun; It is quite possible that “hard” cast will work well for you. The most important part is that the bullets are the right size.

I have a couple of .45 Colt Rugers - the cylinder throats needed reamed (they were undersize) to .4525” before they performed up to par.

Now, after reaming, they give me excellent accuracy and NO leading whatsoever.

I have had excellent results with a variety of bullet styles. My current favorite is a Mihec clone of the RCBS 45-270-SAA (my cast). The NOE clone of the Lyman 454424 also works very well.

If you prefer “Traditional” shapes, then the Lyman 452664 with round flat nose also shoots well in my revolvers with both smokeless and black powder (using proper lubrication for each).

My alloy is also WW's+2% tin.

You might want to just “jump right in", pick your bullet and start casting. There is NO time like the present.

Dale53

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oscarflytyer posted this 27 January 2012

Dale53 wrote: If you prefer “Traditional” shapes, then the Lyman 452664 with round flat nose also shoots well in my revolvers with both smokeless and black powder (using proper lubrication for each).

My alloy is also WW's+2% tin.

You might want to just “jump right in", pick your bullet and start casting. There is NO time like the present.

Dale53

Dale - Notice you mention Black Powder loads in your 45 Colt.  I have load data for BP, but I am uncertain if the listed charges are weighted charges or volume charges.  IIRC, they are b/n 30-35 w/ a 250 grn bullet.

Any insight and/or loads you use would be appreciated.  Only bullet I am casting is the Lee 252 SWC - drops at 257 grns with my WW+2% alloy.  Thanx

Steve

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Pigslayer posted this 18 February 2012

I shoot a Lyman 452490 w/8 grs. Unique out of my Ruger Blackhawk. Good Shooter. I also shoot a LEE 300 gr. GC with 10 grs. Unique. Good Shooter. I use the Lyman #2 Alloy only. Reasonably hard. Brinnell 15. Have no problems.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Dale53 posted this 18 February 2012

Steve; I just saw this request from you on black powder data.

Black powder is loaded by volume, ONLY. The proper charge (which will vary a bit depending on case capacity) is to fill the case 1/16” above the base of the seated bullet. In other words, you want to compress the powder by 1/16".

Mike Venturino recommends that a drop tube be used to compact the powder before you compress. I have had good results by simply dropping from the measure and compressing 1/16” by the bullet.

I have used as soft a bullet as 30/1 lead/tin and as hard as WW's+2% tin (depending on what was at hand) without noticeable difference in accuracy. I have shot a number of score matches using NRA bullseye targets with excellent results. Average group size from a rest runs just under 2” at 25 yards from my Ruger Bisley Vaquero.

My favorite black powder is Swiss. 3f will give the highest velocity (over 900 fps) and 2f somewhat lesser velocity and lesser recoil.

Goex will run about 100 fps slower with corresponding less recoil. Recoil is noticeable with a case full of Swiss 3F. However, I have managed to shoot 50 shot matches without issue.

Each revolver is a law unto itself - mine will shoot about 70 rounds before the cylinder starts tying up. Then, a quick cleaning with a good black powder solvent and it is ready for another seventy.

I have also had good results with Pyrodex “P” loaded the same way.

Lubricant is extremely important with black powder - I use Emmert's Home Mix with great results.

SPG commercial lube does well, also.

Dale53

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Ed Harris posted this 19 February 2012

In my Colt M1909 DA .45 I have found that 6 grs. of Bullseye with the Remington bullet shoots well, for what it's worth.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Buzzard Bill posted this 19 February 2012

There is nothing better than casting your own bullets and then getting them to preform. Its a great feeling and makes you sleep good at night.

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oscarflytyer posted this 19 February 2012

THANX Dale! I know the normal rule for BP is volume, but was just unsure for modern revolvers.

One of these days I will give it a go. Probably shoot Elephant 2F - as I have over 2 lbs of it.

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Dale53 posted this 26 February 2012

Oscar; Elephant 2f will give you in the neighborhood of 750 fps with a 250 gr bullet and will be a very pleasant load to shoot.

Goex 2f will give you about 922 fps and the recoil will be noticeable. Noticeable means felt recoil will be greater than with a smokeless load at comparable velocity.

I shot a good bit of 3F Swiss and it gives over 1000 fps and a good rap on the knuckle in my hands.

Pyrodex P will give about 900-950 fps with comparable recoil.

For general fun shooting, Elephant has a lot to commend it's use.

When shooting black powder be sure and use a good black powder lube. Alox based lubes that work so well with smokeless will NOT make you a happy camper. The fouling is very hard to clean up - VERY hard. I use mostly Emmert's Home Mix (50% pure natural beeswax, 40% plain Crisco, and 10% Canola Oil). A somewhat better lube can be had by substituting Anhydrous Lanolin for the Canola Oil. All measurements by melted volume.

FWIW Dale53

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codarnall posted this 26 February 2012

You will love missouri bullet company. That is if Zero hasn't killed it too. They list the hardness etc and you will be more than happy. Postage went up on 2/1 but its just a few bucks more. Gas hit $5.49 for 87 Thursday, don't believe. I'll send a Chevron photo. Charlie

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303PV posted this 26 February 2012

In the era when black powder was the only propellant no one talked about measuring the charge by volume only. The weight , the granulation range and the chemical composition were specified. Only when the black powder substitutes were introduced the “volume only” myth was introduced.The BP substitutes contain more energy as BP by unit weight. To avoid problems when the same weight is used the density was adjusted so that the same volume had about the same energy as BP. 45-70 used 70 grains of BP. I think the ” volume only “rule is confusing and was only introduced for marketing reasons.:X

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hunterspistol posted this 26 February 2012

:coffee     Carolina Cast Bullets is a small venture that uses wheelweight:

http://carolinacastbullets.com/>http://carolinacastbullets.com/

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Dale53 posted this 27 February 2012

303PV; I gave volume only for a reason. Black powder needs compressed (no air space between black powder and the bullet base) somewhat. 1/16” compression can be had while seating a soft bullet without damaging it. However, any greater compression can damage a bullet while using it to compress the powder. Of course, one can use a compression die, but I have had excellent results without a compression die and that's one less step to have to do.

My revolvers will shoot 2” or better at 25 yards off a rest with these loading methods. I have shot scores in the low nineties at fifty yards while winning matches. I am not a master class shot (rather a high expert and at age 76 not likely to better that by much).

I use the same methods with Pyrodex with essentially the same results.

I don't use wads in my revolver loads, either.

When loading BPCR I do use a compression die, use a .060” wad and get slightly over minute of angle accuracy out to six hundred yards (maximum distance available at the local ranges).

Various brands of cases have different case capacity necessitating differing amounts of powder to get the compression I desire.

FWIw Dale53

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303PV posted this 27 February 2012

Dale53 : I must have misunderstood what you said. Compression gives better results.

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