8.15x46R

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badgeredd posted this 06 November 2017

I recently aquired a stalking rifle chambered is 8.15X46R. I've made cases from 30-30 brass. I am wondering if anyone here actively loads and shoots this cartridge.

 

Edd

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Ed Harris posted this 25 April 2018

Wonderful thread guys, Thanks for posting.  Looking forward to the article(s).

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 25 April 2018

I'm traveling today to tour the Hanford "B" Reactor historical site today with my brother from Oak Ridge National Lab. Will PM you this evening. Thanks, Ric

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frnkeore posted this 25 April 2018

Sure, Ric. I'd be honored.

We can discuss it by any means you like. Phone, Email or PM.

Frank

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RicinYakima posted this 25 April 2018

Frank, I am considering writing an article for stalking rifle reloading for The Fouling Shot. Would you consider writing something about 8.15x46R for the target rifles? Since the WWII guys are passing on, I'm seeing a lot more of these rifle showing up at gun shops. It would be a help for a new owner to have some sort of guidance. Ric

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frnkeore posted this 25 April 2018

Your lucky on having that groove size. There are a lot of bullet you can try. NOE makes a Stop Ring bullet for that groove. You should give it a try. Adjust the case length, until it will close, with a little pressure and it should do well.

I'll check my books and see if I can find something that matches yours.

Frank

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RicinYakima posted this 24 April 2018

Spring time, so playing with the 8.15 again. Frank, it appears to be made on a Kittner (spelling, trying to remember from the De Hass book) style action. A typical "guild" built rifle with lots of apprentices working on it. Slugged the bore; bore is 0.310" and groove is 0.321". Rifle was proofed in 1939, so that may be the reason it has a military specification bore. It is also marked as "sport steel" so I am assuming that it is very soft and only made to shoot lead bullets.

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frnkeore posted this 16 November 2017

Sorry John, I misspelled Patent.

Our Patent's usually have numbers and dates. Most but, not all German "Patent" stampings, don't add a number when stamping that they are "Patented".

This picture, from the book, Alte Scheibenwaffen (written by Americans), should help explain it.

Frank

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bsdger45 posted this 15 November 2017

Frank, please explain....what is an "American Patten" w/o a  number.

John

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frnkeore posted this 14 November 2017

 D.R.G.'L.  .  Any help with that ? 

It is the same as a American  Patten but, w/o a number.

Frank

 

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bsdger45 posted this 14 November 2017

Mine is a hunting rifle with a Gerard scope in claw mounts, and sling loops.  Marked "8.15x46 NORM".  The 7 groove rifling is Pope style, with the centers of the grooves bore riding.  The grooves have a noticeable radius to their form.  The usual proof marks, crown over B, G, U,  7.7m/m  1.13  710.  I wish that I could identify the maker, as the only markings on the receiver are ...   D.R.G.'L.  .  Any help with that ?

John

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badgeredd posted this 11 November 2017

Argie1891,

 

That is a pretty piece for sure. I think this one of mine was proofed in 1930 but I am not sure. If I understand the proof marks, I have been told the 11.30 is the date of proofing. Does anyone know if that is correct?

 

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badgeredd posted this 11 November 2017

 

Some images of the rifle. Later today I will be loading a few up to shoot for accuracy. Thanks to all that have responded and given me some ideas of where to start.

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argie1891 posted this 11 November 2017

I bought a stalking rifle made in 1909 by Otto Selig a couple years ago in 8.15x46r. So far I haven't shot it a lot but at 50 yards it is very accurate. along with the rifle I received a mountain mould around 160 gr. the load I have gotten the best accuracy it the mountain mould with around 12.5 gr. of sr 4759. 

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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badgeredd posted this 10 November 2017

 My 321232 mold should have a U on it as it casts consistently at .320-.3205" so it is only  .003" larger than my bore,  I have altered the diameter by spraying Frankfort Arsenal Mold release in it. That little trick got it down another thousandth so now it is at most .001 larger than your ideal diameter. I generally shoot for .002" over groove diameter.  I really don't care for the stuff, but in this case I used it to achieve an end.

 

I slugged the bore and did a chamber cast to determine what I was dealing with as soon as I had the rifle in my hands at home. I had no idea, well actually a guessed idea, of what the twist is. The tight patch trick gave me about 1:15 but I don't have a lot of faith in me checking it that way.

 

I copied your drawing and will get a mold ordered soon. Thank you.

 

Edd

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frnkeore posted this 09 November 2017

frnkeore, is the bullet shown in Accurate mold's catalog? I couldn't find it, but I may have overlooked it.

 

Edd,

No, it's not in Accurate catalog, that I know of but, if you submit it to them, they should'nt have any problem making it.

The 321232 mold casts around .324 and may be much larger than you need. I would highly suggest that you slug your barrel, to get the groove diameter then, find a mold that is .001 larger than that.  NOE makes a version of the 311299 that casts at least .316.

I forgot to mention that even though the groove diameter varies a lot, the twist seems to be pretty standard at 360mm (appox 14.2).

Frank

 

 

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badgeredd posted this 09 November 2017

frnkeore, is the bullet shown in Accurate mold's catalog? I couldn't find it, but I may have overlooked it.

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badgeredd posted this 09 November 2017

Thank you gentlemen. Ive gotten more information in this thread than I could find elsewhere on the web. I loaded up a few rounds yesterday using 2 different bullets and am heartened by the preliminary results at 55 yard (50 meters) using IMR 4759. I have found there is an improvement in my groups by adding .03 to the cartridge length for a total case length of 1.840. The bullets I have shot are both loaded as fixed ammo. I tried the Ideal 321232 and a highly modified Lee 8mm Maximum. The Lee mold has been shortened to yield a 202 grain pb bullet. Further experimentation is needed with other bullets and loads. Thank you again.

 

Edd

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frnkeore posted this 08 November 2017

I've been shooting this type of rifle, since 1990. My rifles are both System Will's. The upper one is 8.15x46R, the lower is 22RF with a barrel made by a famous RF barrel maker of the 30's - 50's, George Titherington.

There are many Geman makers, using many different type actions. The one pictured with the external extractor, is a Original Aydt. I'm not sure what Ric's is. I'd have to see the breech block lowered. One of the most common actions is the Marini type.

The groove size and chamber, vary quite a bit. Mine has a groove diameter of .316 but, most are between .314 and .321. But, it's possible for them to go +/- .002 on either side of that. As you can see in the last picture, there are many different chambers, too. Those pictured aren't all of them. Many gunsmiths made their own reamers. There was suppose to be a "Normalization" of chambers but, even after that, the gunsmiths didn't adhere to it.

All that I've seen are proofed with black powder and marked under the forearm. The letters that you see with crowns are those proof marks. The first proof was done on the bore, before rifling and the bore size is marked. Most will be 7.6 or 7.7 (.2992 - .3031).

They shot many type matches but, they are all OH, that I know of. Paper targets, at 100 & 200 meters, the running boar, as mentioned and a Eagle target, placed on a pole.

All shooting was done with iron sights. the rear sight could be either aperiture or a long slotted notch sight. They also used a notch sight that fitted on the barrel dovetail, forward of the receiver. As I remember, the long notch is for the Eagle target and the barrel sight, for the running boar.

The chambers are long, with no step at for the end of the case. That area is for the stop ring, that these rifles were made for. Then they have a long lead forward of that.

6 years ago, I desided to use both of mine, for all of my OH shooting and I shoot mine, mostly breech seated. The BR group target and my best OH target, are both shot at 200 yards, with 12.0 gr of 4227, in ASSRA matches. The other group of 3 targets is my orginal load developement targets at 100 yards.

Believe it or not, the two match targets, were shot BSed, using a old, interical handle, oversize (.316 dia) Ideal 308329 spitzer bullet that I reamed the GC off of.

The last drawing is a stop ring bullet, like was ment to be used in these rifles. I drew this one with a .180 meplat, so Accurate molds could make it. It shows the SR at .326, it goes against the case mouth and seat the COAL. The COAL can be adjusted by case length. You form the case at 49mm, then chamber it and trim by the amount that won't let it go all the way in. I leave about 1/16" out and push that in but, it will leave the bullet in the chamber, if pulled back out, unless you size it. I don't, I use a push fit, into the case mouth.

Whether BSed or fixed, 12.0 gr 4227, is a good place to start, for PB bullets. I don't shoot GC's so, I don't have GC info.

Frank

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RicinYakima posted this 07 November 2017

4060may,

From my research, mine is not made for hunting either. I know they call them "stalking rifles" but my German correspondents tell me that before WWII "running boar" matches were very popular. The match was shot at about 50 meters with the target running down a sloped cable, from left to right, next one right to left. The rifles were made to handle like shotguns with a smooth swing and set triggers. They used soft lead bullets, paper patched and usually black powder, although ones after WWI were flaked smokeless. These were all fixed cartridges and they were the least expensive centerfire ammo in German at the time as they made millions of them. Mostly the cases were "seconds" (re-manufactured) from the formal target rifles like yours.

Ric

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4060may posted this 07 November 2017

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