I'm cogitating my options for a load for my hideout gun. One's a S&W 36 J frame 5 shot .357 and the other is a Charter Arms Undercover .38 Sp. The Charter is more compact and better for summer time clothing. I've read a lot on loads for these type purposes but not much mention of the old original Keith designs. I have a couple old Lyman molds, one's 150 and the other is about 170 IIRC. Seems to me a bullet designed for hunting big game ought to be good for a self defense load too, particularly the heavier ones when it's cold and heavy coats/clothing could be an issue. Anybody besides me looking at or using the old Keith's for social service?
Keith SWC for CCW
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- Last Post 10 August 2012
cogitating---------have not heard that word used since college. +40years ago. 170gr keith would be good but so would a full wadcutter pushed hard.
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It's the old penetration vs. expansion question. In a snub nose, I think a 110 gr or 125 gr HP going about 1000 to 1200 fps is good. Remember carrying a CCW weapon is for your protection or protection for others. You won't need over penetration of car doors, walls, etc...Hit what you aim at and hide or run until the cops arrive. If the perp doesn't die, you didn't empty your gun under threat.
Because I said so!
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I would go with a medium weight slug cast soft for maximum stopping power in a snubby. Heavy slugs at maximum velocity are painful to shoot and might not allow for faster follow up shots. Multiple hits with small caliber soft slugs would trump one poorly placed hit with a heavy weight screamer IMHO.
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I really like my old Charter Arms Undercover with a Tyler T-Grip on it. In fact I like it better than the Smith model 640 I have. If I was going to carry one of the two you mentioned, which I can't since I live in Illinois, it'd be the Charter with a 140 gr LBT WFN loaded to about 800 fps.
But since you didn't mention the LBT and did mention the Keith I can only say If someone decides to shoot me I'm not going to be asking what bullet they used. I'm going to be falling on the ground or running for my life screaming like a teenage girl at a Justin Bieber concert.
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Deep winter (heavy clothing) = penetration. The rest of the year = wadcutters pushed hard. A cop told me this. Ervin
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I cast up some Keith Lyman 358429 SWC bullets from pure linotype, intending to shoot them in the 357 magnums and maximums. I also loaded some 38 Specials with 6.0 gr of HS6 to try in my S&W Model 38 Bodyguard Airweight. That was the only gun that liked the bullet/load that I tried. I got 5 shot groups averaging about 2.6” at 25 yards (fired resting on sandbags). None of my other guns liked the 358429 bullet with the loads I was trying.
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Full charge wadcutter.
If you don't have the Fouling Shot article handy, you can also read it here:
http://www.grantcunningham.com/blogfiles/75f11fe4e235da7c69cabf94daa7dbd9-932.html
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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I favor the SWC 160 gr. LBT Modified SWC for the 38 and 357. Goes through 3 wet phone books at 20ft. Cuts a nice clean wound channel insuring a lot of blood loss. But I caution, make sure your states laws regarding CCW carry allow homemade ammo as I have heard that some prosecuting attys may claim that the ammo was specifically made to kill and therefore they may consider per-meditated murder as a charge.
Personally I use nothing but lead cast and I will worry about the charges later, my life comes first and I pray that I will never have to go to the extreme of taking a life to protect mine.
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Ed- do you see any advantages to heavier than normal wadcutters like Lymans 358432 160 gr? I'm thinking a plain, flatnosed (no button) wadcutter would work better
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I have wadcutter moulds in a range of weights - what's best for self-defense - light or heavy?
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